Jeff Mills

[Douglas Robinson]

What should we do?

We told him last time he was on probabtion. If we do not follow up this time, we will probably never be able to reign him in. Barbara made a good point that waiting 2 weeks is too long.

I am in favor of suspending him. What do you all think?

Should we have a tele-conference to discuss this?

 

[Tar Heel]

I haven't seen his post due to the fact that I have been out of town quite a bit lately. However, if he has crossed the line, no further warning should be given. I vote for suspension.

 

[Tar Heel]

I just read the post. In doing so, I clicked the "Manage" button on the first 4 replies and restored those so I could see what was being said. I thought I deleted them again, but apparently not. Someone needs to be sure those replies are deleted. Sorry about that. My vote is still to suspend/ban him.

 

[Douglas Robinson]

If we suspend or banish Jeff, do we make some sort of announcement? There are reasons for and against it:

FOR
1. Lets the members know the policies will be enforced
2. Helps get rid of the perception that we are soft on this issue

AGAINST
1. Could create a whole new tempest
2. There might be some form of backlash

Please chime in.

 

[ScottM]

This is my take....Jeff did not go over the line but posted a thread that I strongly believe he was well aware that someone would take over the line. But how do you prove it? Kinda like leaving your car running with the door open hoping someone will steal it. Now when that stolen car runs someone over was the car's owner at fault and how do your prove it?

Don't get me wrong. I am tired of this crap but can we really ban someone based on what we perceived was the intent. Remember what we do here will need to be followed for all others that repeatedly violate the policy.

With all that said, I vote no to suspend.

 

[ScottM]

I just read the post. In doing so, I clicked the "Manage" button on the first 4 replies and restored those so I could see what was being said. I thought I deleted them again, but apparently not. Someone needs to be sure those replies are deleted. Sorry about that. My vote is still to suspend/ban him.

The thread is still deleted. Only Mods, Admin, and the BoD can still see it.

 

[ScottM]

Let me make sure you understand my position on this. If Jeff or any other member clearly violates our policies it is our duty to act. If we can show a clear violation I do not think there will be any back lash. I am starting to sound like a lawyer :slap: but I do not think we can prove a clear violation.


Doug no offense to you.

 

[TracyP]

Bottom line is that he knew what he was doing was wrong and that one of the other trouble makers or a non suspecting newbie would take the thread to the level that he intended it to be taken. I have a new idea. I think we do a temporary ban of a set time period, say 30, 60, 90 days. He WILL tell the others in other ways that NCWW banned him. That in my opinion will set the precedence we are trying to accomplish without creating havoc among the other "Jeffs" on the site. After the suspension period all of his posts will require moderation prior to being seen in the forums for another period that we establish. I wholly as Webmaster will take on the role of moderating those posts. Quite simply he is, after suspension put in a newly created user group where his posts require moderation before they are made visible. We need to make sure that if we do this we know all of the IP addresses he posts from. I will ask for Jim Campbell's help on this.

This took a lot of thinking but I feel it is the best approach.

 

[scsmith42]

I'm with ScottM on this one - I did not find his post to be outside of policy. I don't think that Jeff is acting intentionally to "goad" anyone on the site - I think that he is simply very straightforward with his opinions. Keep in mind that Jeff comes from a "union" type of background and has seen a lot of his friends and families lose jobs overseas.

I was actually speaking with him immediately prior to when he made the post (I did not know that it was coming). We were discussing the high price of caskets and wondered if it could be a potential revenue source for local woodworkers. We were both searching for casket hardware, and during that search he came across the china.com website and was somewhat incredulous. Considering how quickly after our conversation ended that he made the post, I would imagine that he was coming from the position of still being rather incredulous about the china.com site when he made his post.

You will not find me objecting to banning him based upon any activities that he makes that are outside of site policy, but in this instance I don't see where he violated policy. If someone can show me otherwise, then I will change my mind (as I have in the past).

Banning Jeff will have a ripple effect on the site - there is no doubt of that. He is too well known and popular for that not to happen.

If we ban hnim based upon a clear violation of policy, then so be it. But if we ban him for something that was not a clear policy violation, then I think that we're in the wrong and our site will suffer.

My 2 cents.

 

[McRabbet]

Jeff does like to work close to the edge, but this one doesn't qualify for suspension or banishment. We are all aware of what Scott Smith mentioned about Jeff's perception of job losses overseas, but until he steps over our policy line, we can do little but debate his intention when it is not clear. If he does violate policy, then I like the suggestion that Tracy has made to suspend him for a short period (I'd suggest 15 days for the first time unless he has committed a major transgression) and then put him in moderation for an equal period to validate his correct behavior. We should post a statement that he will be banned from the site after such an policy breach. Jeff and the flock will get the message loud and clear.

Lets not forget that this same debate over the same person is what drove Steve away from control of the website. If you don't believe me, just look at the "Similar Threads" listed below this thread if you are reading it.