Jack plane? Block plane?

[Claus]

I’ve been doing a lot of armchair/internet woodworking lately, falling into the Christopher Schwarz chair making wormhole. In a lot of his content on this topic he shows how to make round dowels for his chair components using a Jack plane and a Block plane.

Alas, these hand tools are foreign to me. Could I get some information about what exactly these planes are? Like, what “number” or model would be considered a Jack plane, Block plane? I’d appreciate any information I can get on these types of planes.

And, please feel free to let me know if you have any that you would part with. Collectability and restoration have no value for me, I’m looking for decent, usable workshop tools. (Of course I know that learning maintenance and sharpening goes along with obtaining and using them). Hopefully I can get some information and make a trip to Pittsboro and see what I can find.

Thanks very much for any input
-Claus

 

[Mike Davis]

Block plane

Low Angle Block Plane Stainless Steel Knuckle Cap

This low angle block plane is the perfect tool for smaller smoothing and trimming jobs. The low angle design excels at slicing through end grain. This block plane is ideal for the cabinet maker and discerning woodworker. The body is made from nearly indestructible stress-relieved ductile cast...

taytools.com

Jack Plane

#5 Jack Smoothing Bench Hand Plane, 14-1/4" Sole, 2" Wide Blade

This #5 jack plane is the perfect tool to smooth and flatten areas and will achieve an produce an accurate and smooth finish. This jack plane is ideal for the cabinet maker and discerning woodworker. The body and frog are made from ductile cast iron. The sole and sides are precision machined to...

taytools.com

 

[Gofor]

i"ll start with the block plane. It is a one handed small plane (about 6" long) that is very versatile for doing light removal, like easing the sharp edges on boards, flushing the end of a protruding dowel, etc. You can spend as much as you want, but the Stanley 5-12-20 with the adjustable mouth is the one I use most. (mine cost $35 at Lowe's a few years ago but i see on Amazon its up to $55 now). the drawback to this (Stanley) plane, as with most inexpensive planes, is that out of the box, the blade is not fit to use. It will take a bit of work to remove the tool marks from the back of the blade (flattening the back), and then to hone the bevel. I find a use for mine for almost every project. It used most for fine detailing work.

A jack plane (#5 size) is a two-handed plane, and would be considered a general purpose tool. Depending on how you sharpen the blade (also called the "iron"), it can be used to "scrub" (taking of large amounts of wood when flattening and squaring rough or twisted lumber), trim the width of a board to size, or for initial smoothing of a surface. It is probably the most made size due to its versatility. With it, you most likely want more than one blade so you can sharpen them to the profile needed for the task (radiused edge for heavy wood removal, and straight edge for straightening the edge of a board.

Regardless of which plane you get, none will work well without a properly sharpened blade. Many start out in the sharpening arena using wet/dry abrasive paper laid, taped, or glued to a flat surface. Your cast iron table saw top, plate glass, granite block, or even a piece of melamine shelf board work for this. The abrasive surface needs to be very flat. As you progress in the sharpening skills, you will probably want to advance to using diamond grit plates or water stones. You will probably spend more $$ on sharpening than you do for one or two plane purchases. As a start for sharpening, you may want to google the "scary sharp"method. If going the wet/dry paper route, I have found CarQuest auto stores the best place to get the finer grits in full sized sheets. (600, 1000, 1500) in full sized sheets.

 

[tvrgeek]

Many good video's explain the differences between planes. Wood By Wright, Peter Sellers, Rex Krueger, Rob Cosman, Stumpy Nubs, Paul Sellers, Katz-Moses, etc. They all have slightly different views, but are who I consider the most trustworthy out there.

Everyone has their experience and viewpoints so take all advice with a grain of salt. Here is mine:
Note I am transitioning from 90% power to 90% hand tool woodwork. It is a hobby, so my time is mine.

I seem to grab my Stanley #4 type 16 smoother for most things. New enough to have the best features, old enough for quality.
Still getting used to my #5 jack. ( Jack, as in jack-of-all-trades)
I used to use my standard angle block (Sears) a lot until I spent a fortune on a Lie Leilson 102 pocket plane. Gad I love that little thing.

Regular vs low angle is about 90% hype. The actual difference in cutting angle is only a few degrees but quite a few dollars. A new to plane user won't notice the difference.

A "scrub" plane is made with a lot more "camber" of curve on the iron and larger mouth so it can hog off a lot of wood for initial flattening. Mine is a modified low end Stanley ( Handyman) . Most are modified #4 or #5. About any piece of junk plane can make a great scrub, even a Harbor Freight!
On all my other planes, I just "camber" the very slightest on the edges to prevent a ridge on the surface. Everyone has their preference but for me, a plane is to make flat, so I want the cutting edge flat. I do love my scrub for getting rough lumber one side flat enough to run though the planer.

In pecking order of user planes, bottom of the pile are the new HF, Buck, Jourgson clones. If sharp, they will cut as well as the best. You won't like using them.
Then the older second line. Miller Falls and Handyman. Many off brand clones of the "Bailey" or "record" pattern. They work just fine.
Now to what you may actually enjoy are the older quality tools: Stanley Bailey, MF , Record etc. Normally considered the go-to for users.
Next up are the newer clones from Bench Dog, Taylor, Wood River and the like. I actually prefer my old Stanley.
Then it gets crazy for boutique planes. Lie Neilson, Veritas, Clifton, Kunz... Big bucks, but so nice. They don't cut any better than a well tuned piece of junk from a yard sale, but oh so nice. Many seem to think the Veritas #5 "custom" is the best overall hand plane. Many prefer the Stanley "bedrock" design, but after spending the time to find one, I find I don't adjust the frog very much anyway and think it was a waste of money. I would rather have gotten two Bailey pattern and set one up narrow, one a bit wider or used the money as a down payment on the Veritas.

How well they cut is all in the iron. Of course, "hand" sharpening is the woodworkers pride, but sharp is sharp, so jigs work. I spent a fortune on jigs and power tools to wind up with the Veritas jig and diamond plates, finish off with a Shapton water stone. I used to strop, but found that it causes too much more work when I nick a blade and need to hit the back again. Even with my DMT diamond plates, for the really rough initial work, I still use really course sand paper. Even the "extra course" DMT is too fine for primary bevel and getting a back flat enough to start. Of course, one of the things you are getting from a prestige level plane is they are closer to useable out of the box where vintage or lessor just take a bit of tuning.

Old irons are hit and miss. Some are great, others dull quickly. I have Hock irons in my older planes as mine had irons too rusted to recover. Pits too deep. Vintage "tool steel", O1, A2, PMV-11 differences a new user won't notice. How sharp you will.

How To Identify Stanley Hand Plane Age And Type (Type Study Tool) | Wood And Shop

Stanley Plane Identification and Stanley Plane Dating: What year and type is your Stanley Bailey handplane? Find out with this Stanley Bailey Plane Type Study. Helpful for Traditional Woodworkers and eBay sellers.

woodandshop.com

Bailey Plane Chart

The chart below outlines the key specifications of all of Stanley’s Bailey line of bench planes. All dimensions provided are in inches and are approximate. Plane No. Dates Made Iron Width Le…

virginiatoolworks.com

Watch for the local MWTCA meets and of course our club picnic.

OOOh coffee is ready! Best of luck.

 

[Claus]

Very good information from all of you, Thank you.

Mike - those links are very informative, are you also recommending the Taylor planes as something I should consider buying?

-Claus

 

[Mike Davis]

Very good information from all of you, Thank you.

Mike - those links are very informative, are you also recommending the Taylor planes as something I should consider buying?

-Claus

I have not used them so I can't recommend. They seem to be on the low end cost wise and maybe middle ground use wise.
The prices I see now in the used market are outrageous. I have a few for sale but it is a great distance to travel and I don't ship on speculation.
What ever you buy I would get some training on set up and sharpening.
The only person I know in SC is Hank Merkle but I don't know if he would offer training.
If you wanted to travel to my shop in Walnut Cove, NC I would include one free plane with a day of instruction at $125.

Some people are charging over $100 for rusty worn out hand planes now.
That is why I thought the Taylor for $99 might be worth a try.

 

[tvrgeek]

Not to step on Mike, well sorry can't help it with all due respect,
IMHO, Taylor is good, but I would rather have an older Stanley. They need about the same amount of tuning. At $99, it looks like a steal as it is barely more than used in fair condition. Next step up for new is the Wood River at more than twice the price, then Veritas for a bunch more and the Lie-Neilson around 3 times.

Taylor is a good guy and lots of very fair products and prices. My frequent first stop. PEC blemished measuring tools are one of his great buys. $70 for his low angle block is also a good deal. If I used a block more, I would grab one, but I use my little #102 mostly. The one advantage of the low angle block is they fit the hand a little better than the standard block plane. At least my big mitts that is. Disclosure, I have several Taylor planes, but not a #5. My experience is their bodies just needs de-burring and the iron flattened and sharpened. The Wood River needed less, and a Lie Neilson or Veritas is almost ready out of the box.

I should mention, one advantage of a new plane is the ductile iron used. If you drop one, it will chip the floor. The older cast iron is far more brittle and may crack. Of course if you let your instinct take over and stick your foot out, instead of breaking the floor or plane, you may just break your foot. I have rubber mats on much of my shop floor and try not to drop my tools.

I have a WoodRiver #4 smoother ( bedrock pattern) but the extra weight that some love I don't really. Could be habit, but I think Stanley got it right to start with. The more heft may be an advantage on a shooting board. Lie Neilson goes for heavy even as far as a #4 cast in bronze.

That we have choices is fantastic!

That offer Mike is making you should JUMP all over! So much more wisdom can be gained in person from an old pro like Mike.

 

[Mike Davis]

Not to step on Mike, well sorry can't help it with all due respect,
IMHO, Taylor is good, but I would rather have an older Stanley. They need about the same amount of tuning. At $99, it looks like a steal as it is barely more than used in fair condition. Next step up for new is the Wood River at more than twice the price, then Veritas for a bunch more and the Lie-Neilson around 3 times.

Taylor is a good guy and lots of very fair products and prices. My frequent first stop. PEC blemished measuring tools are one of his great buys. $70 for his low angle block is also a good deal. If I used a block more, I would grab one, but I use my little #102 mostly. The one advantage of the low angle block is they fit the hand a little better than the standard block plane. At least my big mitts that is. Disclosure, I have several Taylor planes, but not a #5. My experience is their bodies just needs de-burring and the iron flattened and sharpened. The Wood River needed less, and a Lie Neilson or Veritas is almost ready out of the box.

I should mention, one advantage of a new plane is the ductile iron used. If you drop one, it will chip the floor. The older cast iron is far more brittle and may crack. Of course if you let your instinct take over and stick your foot out, instead of breaking the floor or plane, you may just break your foot. I have rubber mats on much of my shop floor and try not to drop my tools.

I have a WoodRiver #4 smoother ( bedrock pattern) but the extra weight that some love I don't really. Could be habit, but I think Stanley got it right to start with. The more heft may be an advantage on a shooting board. Lie Neilson goes for heavy even as far as a #4 cast in bronze.

That we have choices is fantastic!

That offer Mike is making you should JUMP all over! So much more wisdom can be gained in person from an old pro like Mike.

I totally agree and was hoping someone had used the Taylor planes to give some real world experience with them.
The pre-1950s Stanley and some other higher end used tools are much better than any of the lower end tools made today.
I don't own any of the Lie-Nielsen planes because as a hobbyist I simply can't justify the cost.
Which seems awkward since I do own two Jared Green back saws.
But I have the Lie-Nielsen saws that were given to me and they don't hold a candle to the Greens.
Everybody has to decide where to spend their own money, time, and effort.

 

[tvrgeek]

Totally agree. I had terrible luck doing decent joinery until I bought a Froip saw. Now I know it was not just me, but the tool. Since then I have learned how to tune a saw and can make a Crown cut just fine. It was worth the money to get the good tool so I could learn to saw and knew any mistake was me, not the tool! Of course, with more skill than I, really good woodworkers can make a so-so tool perform just fine. I am still doing better with English pattern saws, trying to learn the Japanese saws. They have a lot of advantages.

I have a Tailor rebate plane ( combo with the removeable nose), scraper plane and 2 spokeshaves from Taylor. All were about the same stage of prep. Bodies just needed the edges relieved, and irons needed flattening and sharpening. Then really good tools. I am still learning how to use the scraper plane and the round sole spokeshave but I can tell, it is me not the tool giving the problems. I can go to town with the flat sole. The rebate plane iron has to be reset if doing right or left cut as it is not the half a hair wider than the body. Easy tap-tap with my little brass hammer. I find I am using my router plane ( Bench Dog) more than the rebate plane just because. I think I want more of them preset with different irons. A pointed one and a thinner one. I like the new Katz-Moses router plane. Odd, a router plane is not usually listed as one of the essential first tools, but I have learned it really should be, even for a machine woodworker.

I think the Stanly #4 type 16 to be the best of the Bailey pattern. No way to tell if pre war or during the war. Larger adjustment knob etc. I guess the type 15 as the last pre-war is considered the very best. Go back much earlier and you get the smaller adjustment wheel, Back too far and the frog adjustment does not have a screw. My #78 is a type 9. For a jointer, the lack ode frog screw is not an issue as I never change it. One can retrofit finer thread knobs and yokes from the guy working with Wood By Wright and get the precision of a L-N. Does not cut any better, but nice to have less slop.

The only thing about the Taylor bench planes is the cap thumbscrew rather than the toggle cam on the Bailey pattern. Both work, but the Bailey is quicker to change irons. Pretty trivial IMHO. Curious, their block is a lever cap and I prefer the thumb wheel design.

 

[Rwe2156]

If you're looking to buy a new plane, I can recommend WoodRiver. Cosman has some videos on commissioning them. But they are excellent planes and a good way for a rookie to start out. Vintage Stanleys are good & a cheaper way to start especially if you buy one needing restoration.

The flip side of hand planes is learning to hone an edge. I would say get the sharpening figured out before you even buy a plane.

 

[Hmerkle]

@Claus sent you a PM.
I purposely waited for @Mike Davis to weigh in since he is my "Go-To" on questions like these.

 

[bob vaughan]

I would say get the sharpening figured out before you even buy a plane.

Excellent advice.

 

[tvrgeek]

The iron does the cutting. How well it cuts is up to your sharpening. The plane just holds the iron. From basic to prestige, they all cut. Just picking up a prestige plane makes you smile.

Not sure I know how to learn to sharpen an iron if I did not have one.

The Wood River planes are a LOT heavier than the Stanley. Some ( most?) like that; I don't. Otherwise, lifetime tools and they should be for the price. Cosman worked with them to get the details like tote angle just right. Something you may not get on a cheap plane. Something that you will appreciate over time. They do have a lot less slop in adjustment over my Stanley's. No big deal, but nice. I would expect the Taylor to have more slop like a Bailey Stanley. My low end Miller Falls you have to spin the adjustment wheel like you are on Wheel of Fortune.

The Veritas LAJ is only a few dollars more than the Wood River and I like their idea of little side setscrews when you pull the iron for a quick fine hone and drop it back in. Less fiddling to re-setup so they say. The new Stanley low angle Jack "Sweetheart" seems to have mixed reviews. Some love it, some say so-so. Only $135 or so. I have only picked one up in a store but not used one. It looked nice to me but I have a Miller Falls and a Bedrock, so not buying another #5. Maybe.

If you get a vintage plane and the iron is too pitted, then add the cost of a new iron and you are up to the Taylor price. Other entry might be the Grizzly at only $40. If it does not work as a good jack, great candidate to make a scrub out of. Some have suggested they are better than the price suggests and a small step above the other really cheap ones. I have to believe all the cheap planes come out of the same factory, so maybe the only difference is paint.

Ever notice, Cosman of course pushes WoodRiver and talks kindly on Lie-Neilson ( he used to be a L-N distributor), but I have never seen him talk about a Veritas or Clifton.

Do note, it is almost a religious war: L-N, Veritas, vintage, Primus wood body... Then there are the Japanese planes which are a whole different animal but do the same job. So expect passionate viewpoints. Looking for a real rabbit hole,? James Krenov only used simple wood body planes he made himself. Who are we to argue with him!

I stick with my original. Take Mike up on his offer, spend the time to learn and get a user plane for the price of a prestige plane. I spent many many hours ( years) frustrated trying to learn it myself. I think I am pretty good now but every day in the shop is learning. Second choice would be the Taylor. It would not be a bad tool with a bit of tune-up. If you win the lottery or find the plane in your hands 10 hours a day, jump to the prestige planes. They do feel ever so nice to use.