Help with a "tough" decision

[timf67]

Some may have noticed that I was cleaning out a few tools from my shop. Well I was hoping to wait until I have a new gloat until posting, but I have run into a good problem and need some advice. I am looking at new bandsaws - BIG ONES :icon_cheers - and I have narrowed it down to a select few and want comments/advice/reviews. I looked at many and narrowed it down to the MM16 and the Laguna LT-16HD. Yes, I also looked at the griz G0636X and seriously considered it until I decided that for a little more I could get one of the "big dogs". So I started negotiating with MM and Laguna and have worked out some REALLY good deals and I have it to where the prices and accessories they are throwing in are about equal for both. So does anyone have an opinion one way or the other? I say it is a "tough" decision because I don't think I can lose either way...:gar-Bi

Oh, and my other option is to get a 12" combo jointer/planer with Helical Head instead of a new bandsaw, so throw in your $0.02 on that option as well

 

[Mt. Gomer]

Kinda of a toss up for me.... I've never used a mm so I've nothing to base it on. Dad got a new Laguna not long ago and it is a sweet piece of machinery so it got my vote...

 

[sawman101]

My neighbor bought the Griz G0636X and he loves it. Works very well for re-sawing--ample power and good accuracy. He has only used it for res-awing boards of various lengths up to 14' and widths to 12", so that is the total experience on that machine. Far better than my Jet 14" w/riser blocks. The choice between spiral head planer and band saw would boil down to which machine would be of the greatest benefit to the work you are doing. :rolf: Gut wrenching decision for sure.:icon_scra Then, of coarse, we will all await the mandatory gloat.:gar-La;

 

[eyekode]

So what are the trade offs? What is your current bandsaw? What is your current jointer/planer situation. Oh yeah... and what do you build

 

[timf67]

So what are the trade offs? What is your current bandsaw? What is your current jointer/planer situation. Oh yeah... and what do you build

Build? I don't have time for that until my boys get a little older! I am just collecting cool tools right now! :rotflm:

Seriously though, my thoughts are to use the bigger bandsaw to process wet tree "chunks" for turning. I have a 14" Delta X5 right now. The thoughts on the jointer/planer would be to free up some space in my cramped shop by being able to combine my current 2 machines into 1. As for trade-offs, I don't really see any.

 

[cpowell]

Build? I don't have time for that until my boys get a little older! I am just collecting cool tools right now! :rotflm:

Seriously though, my thoughts are to use the bigger bandsaw to process wet tree "chunks" for turning. I have a 14" Delta X5 right now. The thoughts on the jointer/planer would be to free up some space in my cramped shop by being able to combine my current 2 machines into 1. As for trade-offs, I don't really see any.

I have the MM-16 and it is a solid machine. It can do a lot of things you may be doing on the TS now and is much safer than a TS. I use mine for rough stock prep, curves, a lot of resawing.

I was at the same point - LT-16HD or MM-16. I test drove the MM-16 at a fellow NCWWers shop and that tipped the scales for me.

Chuck

 

[FredP]

depends on your thinking. laguna and MM are both solid machines and you would be pleased with either. If you go grizzly you could probly get both machines for not much more than one of the others. I've not used grizz anything so my $.02 is worth just that.:gar-La; sometimes more is better and sometimes it's just more.

 

[WoodWrangler]

You will never get two people to fully agree with this topic ... but here are my two cents. Both are probably great machines, however let me offer this from my position ...

1. I have the Laguna LT24. Solid machine, overbuilt in all the right places, poor dust collection (2004 model, not secondary dust collector under table), awesome ceramic glides (works best with larger blades). If you are serious at a long term saw though, I would recommend the LT18 at least.

2. Mike (Shamrock) has an LT16 and give mixed emotions about it. Maybe you could buy his (?)

3. A guy I met in Charlotte has a MM 24" saw and has not had a great experience (in fact, I'm pretty sure he might sell it if you are interested I could put you in contact). The saw itself is solid, but customer support has been horrible by every measure from what he explained to me.

4. Travis has a MM 24" and seems to love it.

 

[WoodWrangler]

One more note ... Grizzly does have a nice offering, however their motors are not as good. Now, that doesn't mean they won't last ... but they are definitely a notch below the competition (and that is where they save a few bucks). With that said, I also have the Grizzly 17" saw and it is really great for the money. Large table, plenty of power, cheap fence, tracks well, decent guides, cheap plastic parts here and there

 

[cpowell]

You will never get two people to fully agree with this topic ... but here are my two cents. Both are probably great machines, however let me offer this from my position ...

1. I have the Laguna LT24. Solid machine, overbuilt in all the right places, poor dust collection (2004 model, not secondary dust collector under table), awesome ceramic glides (works best with larger blades). If you are serious at a long term saw though, I would recommend the LT18 at least.

2. Mike (Shamrock) has an LT16 and give mixed emotions about it. Maybe you could buy his (?)

3. A guy I met in Charlotte has a MM 24" saw and has not had a great experience (in fact, I'm pretty sure he might sell it if you are interested I could put you in contact). The saw itself is solid, but customer support has been horrible by every measure from what he explained to me.

4. Travis has a MM 24" and seems to love it.

I wonder what problem the MM-24 saw had that required customer support? Poor CS is not a good thing.

There were a few known issues with the MM-16 setup when I bought mine several years ago -blade guard requires modification, lower guide initial setup is a little quirky but works fine after setup. Some folks have complained that the fence face is not 90 degrees to the table top surface. These quirks are little more than small annoyances really and were easily remedied. Once set up it performs flawlessly.

I like the euro style guides on my MM-16 but have seen demos of the ceramic guides on the LT-16HD and was very impressed with the speed of setup and the cut quality.

Chuck

 

[Travis Porter]

I have a MM24 as Jeremy noted, and compared to any of the 14" saws there is absolutely no comparison. As for which to buy in your choices, it is a tough decision. I totally agree with Jeremy on the dust collection. The Laguna and the MM are mediocre in that aspect.

If the resaw heights, table sizes, and motor amperage (I don't trust HP) are comparable, I think I would go with the Laguna. Something about the ceramic guides and the two way fence have an allure to me, especially the ceramic guides. There have been a few instances I have considered buying the guides for my saw.

Although both the Laguna and the Minimax are beasts, I am pretty sure they are made in the same factory. The add-ons are the differentiator.

I will forewarn you to not expect a lot from the manuals, and there will be a few rough edges, but what you do get is a big, ready to roll machine.

Lastly, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, get them to throw a carbide blade in, and if that fails, buy one. It isn't cheap, and you will be in sticker shock, but you won't regret it.

 

[Travis Porter]

BTW, when you do green wood you should clean out to keep from having any rust issues.

 

[ehpoole]

Re: Carbide-tipped blade advice

Lastly, and this is VERY IMPORTANT, get them to throw a carbide blade in, and if that fails, buy one. It isn't cheap, and you will be in sticker shock, but you won't regret it.

Not to hijack this thread, but I've been planning to add a carbide tipped resaw blade (1" to 1-1/4", 3-4 TPI, 142") to my 18" Rikon Bandsaw. I would love any input those who already own such might offer as to which brand, etc, I should invest in.

 

[FredP]

Re: Carbide-tipped blade advice

Not to hijack this thread, but I've been planning to add a carbide tipped resaw blade (1" to 1-1/4", 3-4 TPI, 142") to my 18" Rikon Bandsaw. I would love any input those who already own such might offer as to which brand, etc, I should invest in.

IMO stick with a 3/4" blade. I think you will find a 1" too heavy to get the proper tension on the blade. I have an 18" delta and this seems to be an issue with it. the rikon is built a lot like the delta.:icon_thum

 

[jlimey]

I have the Laguna HD16. I like the saw, but I don't care for the ceramic guides. If you are cutting something thick enough to put pressure on the rear guide, sparks fly! Enough sparks that I called Laguna because I thought this certainly can't be correct - I must have something setup wrong. I was assured that it was normal. Well, to me sparks and wood dust doesn't seem like a good combination. They also "squeal" at a pitch that my ears find offensive during those cuts. I bought mine when they just came out and thankfully made them throw in the old bearing guides too. I just haven't bothered to install them yet.

I will ask fellow members with the ceramic guides their opinions on these issues. I still believe they all can't be like my setup.

 

[Travis Porter]

I get sparks occasionally with my bearing guides. Unfortunately, I see the thrust bearing is chewed up and I need to replace them, and I have NOT used this saw very heavily in the 5 years I have had it.

 

[Mike Davis]

For the use you stated, preping turning blanks, I use a Rikon super 14 (Not sure about the name but you get the idea). It cuts 13 inches high and more than you need for that lathe.

About $700 new.

Then you can go ahead and get the jointer/planer too.

Olson makes a special blade for cutting green wood. You need 3/8 for cutting the rounds.

 

[WoodWrangler]

I have the Laguna HD16. I like the saw, but I don't care for the ceramic guides. If you are cutting something thick enough to put pressure on the rear guide, sparks fly! Enough sparks that I called Laguna because I thought this certainly can't be correct - I must have something setup wrong. I was assured that it was normal. Well, to me sparks and wood dust doesn't seem like a good combination. They also "squeal" at a pitch that my ears find offensive during those cuts. I bought mine when they just came out and thankfully made them throw in the old bearing guides too. I just haven't bothered to install them yet.

I will ask fellow members with the ceramic guides their opinions on these issues. I still believe they all can't be like my setup.

The sparks are normal. The metal on the ceramic makes what I've heard referred to as a "cold" spark. It is brief and really shouldn't cause any problems. I've read entire write-ups from people that know a lot more than I ever plan to on the subject and consensus is that the spark is harmless and normal. As for the squeal .... ? It does make a sound, I suppose, but not a squeal on mine (then again, I almost always wear ear protection with sound suppression:gar-La

Personally, I love the ceramic guides as long as you aren't running tiny little blades. They are super easy to adjust and do a good job. They are by no means a miracle solution to anything ... but work good on those larger blades.

As for carbide blades ... I had the Laguna brand blades for a while. They are definitely good, and in fact awesome compared to any other non-carbide blade ... HOWEVER, I stepped into a Lennox Tri-master recently ... and it is even better. Takes a bigger kerf, but cuts like butter and seems to be keeping the edge a lot longer.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Tim - What do you want to do with this saw? If a fair amount of resawing is in the picture, I would (again) highly suggest going with at least the 18" saw and get the 5HP motor. While 2HP will be plenty, 5HP will never be questioned. Why the 18"? Not because of extra height or anything ... but because of the extra "beef". That baby will be built a lot heavier duty everywhere. If you are stuck on 16", or smaller, I would really consider a different brand saw than MM or Laguna. The big boys make the best BIG saws, but I'm not so sure about the smaller ones. I have the Grizzly 17" with a 2HP motor and it is great for just about everything and comes with many frills too. Rikon's 18" also looks pretty nice (also know someone who might want to sell one of those just north of Charlotte withwhom you could ask)

 

[timf67]

Well not to kill a fun thread, but I made the decision today after some last minute negotiating with Laguna... I now have an LT16 HD on order due to ship in two weeks! :tool: And as part of the last minute negotiations, I also have a driftmaster fence and 1" resaw master carbide blade coming as well! :icon_cheers. As for your concerns Jeremy, I think the LT16 HD covers them. It has a 4.5 HP Baldor motor, and 16" resaw capacity - hopefully more than I will ever need. I'll put out a request for "manual labor" somtime around the first weekend of July. :gar-Bi