Dovetail saw recommendations

[fulldec]

Now that I have started down this path, I'd like to buy a dovetail saw. I used a few at the tool box workshop yesterday and some were better than others. Some were very tight in the kerf and a lot of work to use. Perhaps they had little to no set on the teeth. Others were easier to use. All that I tried were treasured beauties that I couldn't identify.

So my question is, is there a clear value winner for a dovetail saw out on the market. Is it one of those "you get what you pay for" deals? If I go somewhere like Klingspor, would they have saws and wood that I could try them out on?

I'd really prefer a previously owned saw in good shape, tuned up and ready to go and if it fit the hand nicely. Not sure where to turn to find one like that. Usable old tools are a treasure.

Thanks for any recommendations,

Don

 

[JohnnyR]

Don, I have the veritas fine tooth dovetail saw with the carbon fiber (or some other 'plastic') spine and love it. It fits my hand well, allowing a finger pointed forward which helps keeping it in line. They say the fine tooth is best for 1/2" & less but I find it fine for 3/4" and didn't want to spring for two saws. Can get it at Klingspor at a reasonable price.

 

[Charlie Buchanan]

I have the 14 TPI version of the Veritas saw and it is a great value-- I have used mine for several years and sharpened it several times with no complaints. I think that Klingspor has them for about $60. If you want a more traditional-looking saw the Lie Nielsen is about $125 for the thin plate. I use both. They are both good saws. They both fit well in the hand for me. Considering what some saws sell for they are both excellent values.

 

[Rwe2156]

I did what I saw Frank Klausz do in a video -- I bought a $16 gents saw from woodcraft, set the teeth for a .003 kerf, re sharpened for a rip cut.
It works great.

 

[WoodWrangler]

I'd say, watch this, it might change your mind

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/rww187-which-saw-first/

 

[Mike Davis]

The Veritas $60 saws are a good buy if you don't mind the plastic.

I really like my Lie-Nielsen dovetail saw. Be careful though, they make a very thin kerf saw that has no room in the kerf for a coping blade. If you have a fret saw to remove the waste or go full chisel it will be fine.

You will probably want to take a saw sharpening class or just read up and get the tools and a cheap saw to practice on. But a good class will give you insight that reading may not.

 

[Charlie Buchanan]

That video is a good demonstration that shows the versatility of medium sized saws. You could say that the best saw to use is the one that's sharp. Best to go with a sharp rip-filed saw for dovetails. If I were limited to one backsaw it would be rip-filed.

 

[Mike Davis]

OH, missed the part about looking for a good used saw.

There is a store over the Woodwright's school in Pittsboro. Several folks I know have bought tools there and are very happy with the tool and the price.

http://www.woodwrightschool.com/the-tool-store/

 

[Hmerkle]

OH, missed the part about looking for a good used saw.

There is a store over the Woodwright's school in Pittsboro. Several folks I know have bought tools there and are very happy with the tool and the price.

http://www.woodwrightschool.com/the-tool-store/

+100 Ed Lebetkin will treat you right (and let you try out your potential reasonably priceed purchase)

 

[Rwe2156]

I'd say, watch this, it might change your mind

http://www.renaissancewoodworker.com/rww187-which-saw-first/

I'm just pointing out for those of us who dovetail once in a while but can't afford or can't justify an expensive saw that this is a viabl alternative. Plus, if Frank Klausz does it, how can it be wrong ;-)))

I disagree a little with the Renaissance guy in that the best tooth profile for dovetailing is a rip, not crosscut. I guess if you could only have one saw, maybe.

The blade On the Woodcraft saw is .020 which is pretty standard. But the teeth were dull and set to crosscut with .035 kerf. And they call it a dovetail saw? Now it is sharp, rip set and .026. That also leaves room for a coping saw if one desires that technique. Cuts very accurately.

 

[eyekode]

One comment: I don't care for "dovetail saws" mostly because the blade tends to be very short in depth. It is much easier for me to judge vertical (and saw angle in general) with a taller saw. This is why I prefer a carcass saw for dovetails.

 

[Hmerkle]

I disagree a little with the Renaissance guy in that the best tooth profile for dovetailing is a rip, not crosscut. I guess if you could only have one saw, maybe.

The blade On the Woodcraft saw is .020 which is pretty standard. But the teeth were dull and set to crosscut with .035 kerf. And they call it a dovetail saw? Now it is sharp, rip set and .026. That also leaves room for a coping saw if one desires that technique. Cuts very accurately.

I agree - I think a rip profile cuts with the grain of the wood much better (hence "RIP" teeth)
I was at a Rob Cosman event and he "called me out" to use his saw and I have to admit the tooth profile he puts in the saws is one of the best tools with which I have cut a piece of wood!
BUT - I would NEVER, EVER lay down $250 for a plastic handled saw! (that is just me)
I would willingly "steal" the ideas and put them into my own saw....

Additionally, your point about the "Dovetail gents saw"
"if Frank Klausz does it, how can it be wrong ;-)))" here is what I believe after my Rob Cosman "brain washing" session - the handle of a carcass or dovetail saw and the "three fingered grip" with your index finger "pointing" helps you see vertical in the plate of your saw (your saw plate is shiny and reflects the wood so you can see 90 degrees to the cut right?)
The saw then "drops" as you simply move it back and forth and gently "comes" to the marking gauge line...

So how does Frank Klausz do it? Answer: 7 to 9 years apprentice, a lifetime woodworker and he has probably already cut more dovetails with a Gents saw than we will in the remainder of our lives! (it is called muscle memory, a learned skill and MANY MANY hours in the shop!)

In my case, I do not have the time - I want to learn to do things by hand, but I need EVERY advantage I can get to do it right the first time.

Now all that said - if you have a kitchen knife that YOU use to make your Dovetails and it is comfortable, you are happy with the result - Carry on -

NO ONE should tell someone - HEY! that isn't the way to do that - unless the "doer" is asking for help or a better way...

 

[kooshball]

OH, missed the part about looking for a good used saw.

There is a store over the Woodwright's school in Pittsboro. Several folks I know have bought tools there and are very happy with the tool and the price.

http://www.woodwrightschool.com/the-tool-store/

Ed is the fellow who runs the shop and if he is not busy he will even help you with sharpening and tooth setting.

great place to spend money.

 

[kooshball]

One comment: I don't care for "dovetail saws" mostly because the blade tends to be very short in depth. It is much easier for me to judge vertical (and saw angle in general) with a taller saw. This is why I prefer a carcass saw for dovetails.

+1

i built my most recent "dovetail saw" for this exact issue, so I made the blade 12" long and got 2.75" of blade under the back.

 

[Hmerkle]

Ed is the fellow who runs the shop and if he is not busy he will even help you with sharpening and tooth setting.

great place to spend money.

Again +100 to that (seen in a bubble over Hank's head: I wish he wanted to advertise here... he sure gets enough press!)

 

[danmart77]

Don
I am surprised that no one has mentioned using a Japanese saw for dovetail work. I switched to cutting on the pull and never went back. Its not for everybody but it is really a good saw for cutting pins and dovetails.

The cost of the Japanese saws runs a wide range. You can find some fairly priced saws out there. See if you know someone with on of these and try one out before you buy. You might like it.

Seems like choosing the saw is about like deciding if you like to cut the pins or the dovetails first. There has been a debate on this for as long as I can remember and it seems to lead no place. Most of the folks who are comfortable with one technique a hesitant or unwilling to reverse their approach. When all is said and done, its the joint quality that matters and the path you take to get there is one that fits you. I like to cut my pins first when doing full or half-blind dovetail joinery. Just another input here.

Dan

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[KenOfCary]

You probably tried out several of the extra saws that I brought with me. I really like my Veritas and use it pretty much now. But those other saws were purchases from Ed in Pittsboro. They where Disston or Jackson which is related to Disston. They were all sharpened by Bill Anderson, who taught Ed how to sharpen. If you want a classic saw you won't do better than stopping by Ed's shop above the Woodwrights School in Pittsboro. Ed will steer you right and let you try them each out before buying.

 

[Phil S]

I use a Gyokucho S-372 guided by a David Barron magnetic guide

 

[merrill77]

Don
I am surprised that no one has mentioned using a Japanese saw for dovetail work. I switched to cutting on the pull and never went back. Its not for everybody but it is really a good saw for cutting pins and dovetails.

Same here - I find a flush-set pull saw to be most excellent for dovetails and other fine/precision work. However, the ridiculously thin kerf will allow only very fine coping/fret saw blades to pass.

 

[Rwe2156]

I agree - I think a rip profile cuts with the grain of the wood much better (hence "RIP" teeth)
I was at a Rob Cosman event and he "called me out" to use his saw and I have to admit the tooth profile he puts in the saws is one of the best tools with which I have cut a piece of wood!
BUT - I would NEVER, EVER lay down $250 for a plastic handled saw! (that is just me)
I would willingly "steal" the ideas and put them into my own saw....

Additionally, your point about the "Dovetail gents saw"
"if Frank Klausz does it, how can it be wrong ;-)))" here is what I believe after my Rob Cosman "brain washing" session - the handle of a carcass or dovetail saw and the "three fingered grip" with your index finger "pointing" helps you see vertical in the plate of your saw (your saw plate is shiny and reflects the wood so you can see 90 degrees to the cut right?)
The saw then "drops" as you simply move it back and forth and gently "comes" to the marking gauge line...

So how does Frank Klausz do it? Answer: 7 to 9 years apprentice, a lifetime woodworker and he has probably already cut more dovetails with a Gents saw than we will in the remainder of our lives! (it is called muscle memory, a learned skill and MANY MANY hours in the shop!)

In my case, I do not have the time - I want to learn to do things by hand, but I need EVERY advantage I can get to do it right the first time.

Now all that said - if you have a kitchen knife that YOU use to make your Dovetails and it is comfortable, you are happy with the result - Carry on -

NO ONE should tell someone - HEY! that isn't the way to do that - unless the "doer" is asking for help or a better way...

Saw one video of a guy cutting dts with a hacksaw and actually did a reasonable job. It was a tongue in cheek aimed at those who think what you just said.

I maintain (and from personal exp) that expensive tools don't make you a good craftsman. A good craftsman can get superior results with lower quality tools. And I think that's the point you make with Klausz. That being said, the only saw ice ever used to cut dts is a gents-type saw, so practice, not expensive tools, is what makes you excel.

My mind set is, if I can cut a nice dt with a $20 saw, why not? And how many dts do I actually cut?