Crown moulding

[jeff...]

uggg... I had a fight with the devil yesterday installing crown moulding in the upstairs hall. I haven't done enough of it to be any good at it and all those freaking angles in this old house about drove me batty. I bow to you trim carpenters out there, you have my utmost respect :notworthy:

Putting trim on pieces of furniture is one thing, dealing with 16' long pieces up over your head and 10' off the floor standing on a ladder is something completely different. I told my wife when I was done that it made me feel like I knew nothing about wood working. She said it's a old house and you did a nice job, but little does she know about all the choice sailor words I was saying under my breath when I was putting it up.

I also must say I felt like I should have called the police and inform them I was robbed when I bought the stuff from BORG.

 

[FuzzWuzz16]

Jeff,
Age of house doesn't have anything to do with it! Last house I had was about 12 years old and there wasn't a corner in the place that was within 5 degrees of square! And the oblique corners were whatever angle the non-carpenters decided they were (somewhere between 125 degrees and about 150 degrees!), but not 135 degrees, for sure!

I guess I used a few of the same choice words when I was putting up moulding in the old house. :realmad:

I feel your pain!
Jim

 

[fergy]

Now for the true test of your woodworking skills:

Did you cope the inside corners, or did you just miter them on the mitersaw? :gar-La;

 

[jeff...]

Now for the true test of your woodworking skills:

Did you cope the inside corners, or did you just miter them on the mitersaw? :gar-La;

I coped and trimmed them with my pocket knife - like a good boy should.

 

[MikeH]

I decided last summer that putting crown in our bathroom downstairs would be a good idea. IT KICKED MY BUTT TOO. I had never done any before and I felt like an idiot. I wasted as much crown as there is in the bathroom. It looks great now after the wonder of caulk!

I feel your pain Jeff. I felt like I knew nothing about wood after doing it too.

 

[Gotcha6]

Things to remember when cutting crown mold:
1. You are working 'upside down' with the miter saw. The references are that the base of the saw is actually the ceiling plane and the back of the saw is the wall.
2. Cut the longest run first if it can be done in 1 piece. That way you get to make a mistake and re use that piece on a shorter run. DAMHIKT
3. Coping should be back angled sufficiently to allow a good face fit. Lean the coping saw blade over a lot.
4. Give yourself a good reference point when measuring. Try to measure to the flats on classic ogee bed mold.
5. Cope first and then measure to square cut (or outside miter).
6. Cope to cope pieces can sometimes benefit by being cut slightly longer and forced into place - but not more than 1/16".
7. On long runs where more than 1 piece are required a scarf joint(standing miter) over a joist is better than a square butt joint - and be sure you make no piece shorter than 4 feet on that run.
8. When coping corners leave the square cut end loose the last 3-4 feet until the joint is fitted. You may need to roll the molding one way or the other for a good fit.

 

[PChristy]

I feel your pain Jeff - it took me awhile to understand the method to hang crown - and sometimes I still have to stop and look at what I need to do:BangHead:

 

[McRabbet]

Jeff...

Hope you don't mind -- I moved this thread to the DIY Forum. BTW, I feel your pain. Crown can be a real PITA. I'd much rather do chair rail.

 

[fergy]

I made the mistake of letting my wife pick out a crown moulding with coves and beads on it. For the life of me, I couldn't cope the bead at all, and finally gave up after making a lot of short pieces. The base moulding we used was so much easier to cope. Those old simple moulding profiles are much easier to cope.

The other trick I found was to make a bunch of triangular "blocks" that got screwed and glued to the studs where the walls met the ceiling to give me a base to attach the moulding to. That made life so much easier. I also used construction adhesive on those blocks to hold the moulding in place until I could hit it with the nailgun. Much easier when it's just one "skilled" person and an assistant / wife.

 

[gdoebs]

Here are my tips to make it easier...

1) I highly recommend a continuous backer. I ripped 2X4's at the same angle as the crown but left about 1/8" between the crown and backer. I screwed the backer at a angle into the top plate of the wall.

2) When doing a scarf joint I used about a 20-25 deg angle. Then I cut a biscuit slot into the meat of the crown. On the back of the crown, i used a 1/4 piece of ply with glue and stapled it to the back of the crown. You still can't tell where I scarfed it.

3) Cut your copes with a jig saw. They make jigs for this but I didn't use one. Next time I'll use one. After a couple cuts, you'll be amazed at how fast and accurate they are.

4) When nailing, drive nails in the meat of the crown into the backer. Since there's a gap, the crown sucks up tight and is really solid.

And last but not least...measure twice, cut a few more times!:rotflm:

 

[jeff...]

Ok now that I thought about it a bit and am over the initial pain. A few lessons learned...

* back cut the Cope abut 5 degrees, measure slightly long (around 1/16 to 1/8"), This way it can be "forced" to a fit by trimming with a pocket knife.

* Don't nail close to the inside corners work your way in from both sides this will allow you to roll the crown slightly if needed to get a good tight fit in the corner.

* No glue (bad idea) big mess.

* Nails bend like twig in wind storm, drill a small pilot hole.

* BORG trim stored inside under heat vent at the store, way to dry (4%) MC according to my MM, I let mine sit inside two weeks before I worked with it 7% when I nailed it up.

* Now time for poly hu... Travis?

 

[tjgreen]

I hear you. Trim carpenters earn their money fixing everyone else's mistakes. I've been finishing a bonus room, which has meant built-ins and trimming windows - a whole new appreciation for what they do. Wish I could find the yahoos who installed those windows. But I digress.

My #1 things to remember after putting up crown in 4 rooms in my out-of-square house:

1. Caulk is cheap!

2. Make sure any impressionable youngsters have earplugs in. If you don't turn the air blue at least once during the job, you're not doing it right.

3. Rent or buy a finish nailer, man it makes life easier.

Seriously, I second two tips above, esp. for a one-man job: the 2x4 backer made the single largest difference in the ease and finish of the job (didn't use on first room, did on subsequent). Also, cutting long made a huge difference. Doing it myself, I used MDF crown from the BORG (horrors! but it's very stable, not worried about seasonal movement). I cut all my long wall-to-wall or coped pieces a hair long, because they snap into place and hold themselves up - no more having the wife climbing ladders, or what have you.

One thing I do on copes - run the side of a pencil lead along the cope to mark the cut line, it makes it easier to cut precisely.

 

[JimD]

I find it goes a lot better if I pull out the stud finder and find all the studs first. Next I make up a block that has the distance down the wall as one dimension and the distance out on the ceiling the other. Then I put a small pencil mark at each stud to show where the moulding should be. Now you know where to put the moulding and where to drive the nail.

Putting up crown without a pneumatic nailer seems like it would be torture.

I like to put a backer on scarf joints which I secure with 3/4 narrow crown staples on the back. I cut the width such that it does not interfere with the fit (i.e. narrower than the back of the moulding). I also use construction adhesive or at least yellow glue on the backer. My joints do not open up when I do this.

I like to use a 3 or 4 foot scrap to test fit the joint before making the final cut on the long piece of moulding. I also write down what direction to move things based upon where the joint is open.

I do not find a manual coping saw to be any big speed hindrance. I like my Bosch jigsaw but use it for other things - but to each his own.

I also have not had any success with backing pieces. Again, I am not trying to be critical, I am just saying that when I tried it, it didn't work well for me.

Jim

 

[jlwest]

Personally I think crown molding is over stated. Similar to dovetails which used to have a purpose. Modern glues are great. I like stacking different molding togeather to get a nice profile and it is easier to maintain. On the other hand I always look for a easier way. Just my opinion. Ask your wife to help and she will have another opinion.

Jeff :eusa_danc