Cherry vs Oak for Library Table project

[KurtB]

I'm new to working with hardwoods and looking to build a Shaker style library table. I'd like to use cherry as I've heard it's fairly easy to work.
The question I have is over cherry's tendency to darken with time. The table will be in the entrance to our house and my wife has a large mirror and some plants and small items sitting on the table that's currently there. I'm worried about the cherry developing light spots where the stuff sits on it and blocks the light. So I'm also considering quarter-sawn oak for the project. I'll be doing most of the work with hand tools.

Thought I'd get some opinions from you more experienced folks on which way you might go, oak vs cherry, in this situation? And also a good place to buy the lumber. I'm on the coast by Swansboro.
Thanks very much for your input.
Kurt

 

[JohnnyR]

If the objects on the table stay in one place you will absolutely have light spots. If you can move them around so all of the table sees approximately the same amount of light it should be OK. If it's in direct sunlight it will exacerbate the problem quicker. If you go with cherry, you should let the empty table sit in sunlight for several weeks ( not sure how long) to let it darken which will substantially reduce the problem.

 

[bob vaughan]

I'm worried about the cherry developing light spots where the stuff sits on it and blocks the light.

For the short term, this is almost a certainty if things are left in the same spot for months at a time, particularly if table top is subject to direct sunlight. The up side is that eventually the table top's color will stabilize to that beautiful cherry color that made you consider cherry in the first place. Maybe set up a ping on your calendar to move things opposite hand or something.
I'm not sure any newly made table top won't do that to some degree, oak, cherry, walnut, or whatever.

 

[red]

Cherry will darken and if you don't move the objects around now and then and you will get dark and light spots.

As for the Shaker style library table, I've built many over the years using Norm's plans from the New Yankee Workshop. The build is easy enough and the proportions are perfect. If you build the front and drawer fronts as he did you will end up with an awesome looking table. His detailed plans are in one of his books. Good luck.

Red

 

[Wiley's Woodworks]

All the previous advice on cherry is good advice; my advice is to cut your pieces to final size and let them sit in your shop, preferably in sunlight exposed side up, for a couple of weeks to "age" the color.

My biggest concern is working with the white oak using hand tools. Oak is a "hard" wood. It's hard to cut, hard to shape, hard to sand. If you're talking about using hand held power tools, you may be OK. If you'll be using traditional hand tools, you'll wear yourself out working the white oak.

 

[KurtB]

Thanks Guys. Really appreciate it. Looks like cherry will be the choice. And ageing it a bit before plus moving anything on it around, maybe the first of every month, for a while until the color stabilizes.
Red, it is the one from Norm's Book. I really like the look of that one.
Wiley, yes it's hand tools. Wasn't looking forward to working oak with them. I'd much rather the cherry.
Now I just have to find some.

 

[mdbuntyn]

Like John suggested, when I built a Shaker-style side table out of cherry, I put it out in the sun (8-ish hrs a day) for about a week.

 

[Keye]

I would be very careful about putting cherry in direct sunlight for very long, if at all, this time of the year. The sun is still very high off the horizon and any flat surface is going to become extremely hot. Take a thermometer and place it on a flat surface in full sun during the middle of the day. I think a lot of people would be very surprised with how high the temperature is compared to temperature in the shade.

I would never disagree with anything Bob has to say. I built a sofa table out of cherry and it was located where it was in filtered sun about 3 hours a day. I moved my wife's things around once a week. This table is over 20 years old and you can still see the outlines of different items. If you try to sand this out you will have nothing left when you finish sanding. I tried to sand out a line on a raised panel door and it did not work.

 

[Roy G]

Cherry definitely gets darker in the sun. Walnut, however, will fade in sunlight.

Roy G

 

[Rwe2156]

You're asking the wrong person. Cherry (especially figured) is the most beautiful wood!

I've been in love with cherry for a long time. It is best to let it darken naturally it doesn't need sun. That said, some cherry lumber is light salmon colored and "needs some help".

It can be tinted with dyes. I have used tinted shellac with good results. I use alcohol based dye (Behlen Solar Luxe). Careful, though not to go too dark, you have to factor in natural darkening. I made a mistake with this on my last project and I think in a couple years it will be too dark.

 

[Phil S]

With cherry you can speed up the darkening process with a uv (black) light

 

[Willemjm]

If the objects on the table stay in one place you will absolutely have light spots. If you can move them around so all of the table sees approximately the same amount of light it should be OK. If it's in direct sunlight it will exacerbate the problem quicker. If you go with cherry, you should let the empty table sit in sunlight for several weeks ( not sure how long) to let it darken which will substantially reduce the problem.

^^^^
That pretty much says it all.

The only thing I can add is you are looking at two lumber species which are really on opposite sides of the spectrum. Cherry with fine grain and color varying with figure, used for fine furniture. White Oak with open porous grain and totally different figure, with flecking when quarter sawn. More contemporary. Red Oak with a little more color in the figure than White Oak.

Cherry will show the contrast in color where objects are placed in a very short time. With any lumber, over time hidden spots will change color due to oxidation and if there are plants you may see the finish reacting.

 

[Rwe2156]

I’ve heard its oxidation and I’ve heard it’s UV light rays.

I suspect it’s a combination of both, as I know cherry will naturally darken inside a house never exposed to direct sunlight, and I know objects placed on it will create a lighter shadow.

There is nothing wrong with using some dye stain on cherry. As I mentioned in another post, you may have lumber salmon or pink in color, or you may have boards from different trees of different hues, dyeing will even out the color.

Which reminds me, the late, great Charles Neil took a white poplar board and dyed it you absolutely would think it was cherry.

IMO it’s much safer than putting a board in the sun, where you’re risking potentially catastrophic cupping - you better set a timer, hope it doesn’t go off when a machine is running, and not get distracted or go talk to a neighbor

 

[KurtB]

Thank you all very much. Plenty of great info!
If I can ask one more, is there a place you folks buy your lumber? I'm on the coast and have seen Anchor Hardwoods in Wilmington listed in resources here. They're about 1 1/2 hours from me. My other find would be Capital City Lumber out near Raleigh, about 2 1/2 hours away. Are you guys familiar with either of them? Or maybe someplace else? Thanks again.

 

[wbarnes]

Depending on how much wood you need it might make sense to have The Hardwood Store of NC deliver your wood to you. Their prices are extremely hard to beat from my experience.

I live not far from you (Havelock) and they will deliver any qty of lumber for a flat rate of $80 to our area.

 

[cyclopentadiene]

If you fume the cherry or or oak with ammonia, you can accelerate the aging process. The wood will darken enough with 24 hours exposure to 28% ammonia that sunlight will have little to no impact on the color as it ages. This process also takes away the blotchy finish that is sometimes observed

 

[chris_goris]

Seems like cherry is the wood of choice here but for me I dissent. Is the table going to be used for directly writing on? While cherry is a "hardwood" its surface hardness isnt that of oak. A ballpoint pen may leave impressions in the cherry while oak would not allow this. On the flipside, oak is open grained and can also be difficult to write on ( pen gets snagged by open grain since its not as smooth as cherry). Cherry also tends to burn while working with it (sawing, routing etc), can also be blotchy when finishing. As a new woodworker, I would recommend the oak. Just my $.02.

 

[red]

Red, it is the one from Norm's Book. I really like the look of that one.

Yes. And do the front skirt and drawer fronts as he did and your grain pattern will run from one leg to the other uninterrupted. It's a very cool look so use your most beautiful piece of cherry here! Have fun it's an enjoyable build. Once I built my table, I would put it out in the sun and turn it often so all the cherry darkens some. Be careful because it can darken quickly! Good luck.

Red

 

[JimD]

The top of my dining room table, built earlier this year, is cherry and it is the main wood in the 10 chairs I built more recently. My bedroom set is also cherry. I've previously built similar furniture of oak. I agree with the other comments - oak is a bit harder and also a bit stronger. It splits easier, however. I think of it as a bit more for everyday furniture and cherry for nicer furniture. I haven't done much with hand tools but both cut with a plane fine. Figured cherry looks pretty but would be hard to plane, however. Figured oak is much more rare. I wouldn't rate one as harder to work with but there are different things to be careful about. When cutting cherry with power saws, routing it, and even when sanding when power tools you need to be aware it burns pretty easily. But Oak splinters easily which can also affect routing operations - in a different way.

I like the natural color change of cherry. As the heartwood darkens the contrast with sapwood becomes more apparent. I tend to minimize sapwood in what shows but I kind like a "splash" of it here and there. Cherry also gets pitch pockets - dark areas that can be kind of gummy. It can affect which boards should be used where. The flecks that quarter sawn white oak is known for is also apparent in other oak and can also be something to use where you want the effect.

I think the remarks about color change from sunlight might make it seem this effect is more dramatic and occurs quicker than is my experience. My dining room has windows covering most of two of the four walls. The table top has darkened but it happens slowly. I leave things on it for days to a week or more. I've never seen a shadow. If you left things in place for months, I guess it might be different. My bedroom gets less sunlight but similarly has things on the furniture with no visible ill effect. As long as the things on the table move occasionally I don't think you will see where they were.

 

[KurtB]

Many Thanks to everyone for providing the info. I really appreciate it!