Best table saw (NOT Sawstop)

[Chaz]

I love my SawS... oh, wait

I' left Sawstopout because I'm not interested in them. I was talking with a pro cabinet guy at Klingspor about them and he said he had disabled the "stop". He had done this because the stop could be triggered by a drop of sweat and the stop would take down a perfectly good blade and if you have to get a new stop cartridge, well, that adds up $$$-wise.

As much as I like the saw, I'm not down with that feature and don't want to pay for it.

I'm all for safety, and I've been bit by a table saw enough times that I'm uber-carefull around them.

 

[petebucy4638]

I have a Sawstop professional table saw. I like it a lot. My second pick would probably be a Powermatic. Then again, I have had two Grizzly table saws that were very good too.

 

[bowman]

You can test before starting the saw. Press the wood to the blade and watch the lights at the power switch. If you're dripping sweat on the blade while pushing wood through, there's other factors in play besides wet wood. I have cut through brad nails in the wood and not triggered the safety stop while in the normal mode.

Was the trigger from a drop of sweat first-hand experience, or read somewhere on the internet? But yes, if you have bad habits and are careless, the costs of blades and safety stops can add up. In 3 years, I have only triggered mine once, I don't recall what triggered, but it may have been wet wood, that I did not check beforehand.

 

[Chaz]

Let's talk value.

Here is a used (to say the least) PM 66.

Looks to have been ridden hard and put up wet. Lots of rust, it does have a fence, I assume it runs. $1495

Worth it?

If so, why?

 

[petebucy4638]

Let's talk value.

Here is a used (to say the least) PM 66.

Looks to have been ridden hard and put up wet. Lots of rust, it does have a fence, I assume it runs. $1495

Worth it?

If so, why?


View attachment 222408

Powermatic is a good brand. But Powermatic tools wear out too. I have had friends purchase used shop machinery, table saws, bandsaws, lathes, etc. that were made by top manufacturers, only to discover that the wear and tear of years of hard use had taken a serious toll on the equipment. Tools in bad cosmetic condition are usually neglected and poorly maintained too. You would be better off with a new Grizzly table saw, for not much more money, than this machine.

 

[bobsmodels]

Let's talk value.

Here is a used (to say the least) PM 66.

Looks to have been ridden hard and put up wet. Lots of rust, it does have a fence, I assume it runs. $1495

Worth it?

If so, why?

As I mentioned in my note, find "a nice old one". That one would not classify as a nice old one. However without turning it on, listening to it, looking at the mechanism, the motor, putting a dial indicator on the arbor you really do not know. I am not sure that is rust on it, you would need to contact them to find out. If it runs, everything works, it checks out mechanically then spend a day cleaning it up, never overdue it and use it. Over the years I purchased many used metal working machines, kept trading up to the ones I have now. You get a real instinct for a nice machine. You need to take your time and dig around put the word out on your network of friends. Be surprised what you might find. BTW I went to that site, there were Unisaw's and other Powermatics. Go have a look, there are other sites like that out there, find something near you. I took many day or two day trips with a trailer to get machines. They will not just drop into your town.
As for value, you have a budget, so match a machine to your budget, and get the most for your dollars. It matters not if it is used or new just get something and start making sawdust.


Bob

 

[tvrgeek]

I hear stories of false triggers, but never evidence. Anyway,
I am very happy with my Harvey. Older one and the newer ones added a lot of what they learned by being an OEM for years. Really, bigger, heavier, more power is better and if looking at an older one ,ONLY one with a riving knife. Besides your brain, the most important safety feature. By experience, I won't use a saw with out it.
Unfortunately, I don't think the P-M is what it was. If I bought again and did not buy a SS ( I would) it would be another Harvey. I would get the heavier one. Now in planers, I would pay the price for a P-M.

 

[Rwe2156]

I' left Sawstopout because I'm not interested in them. I was talking with a pro cabinet guy at Klingspor about them and he said he had disabled the "stop". He had done this because the stop could be triggered by a drop of sweat and the stop would take down a perfectly good blade and if you have to get a new stop cartridge, well, that adds up $$$-wise.

As much as I like the saw, I'm not down with that feature and don't want to pay for it.

I'm all for safety, and I've been bit by a table saw enough times that I'm uber-carefull around them.

You hear stories like that with no reality to back it up. Did you think about how you have to lean over a blade to drop sweat on it? Do you even know if he actually owns a SS?

I've used a PCS for 3 years with pretty heavy almost daily use. I've sawn wet wood, sawn through nails, even nicked the miter gauge fence once and it never had a brake trip. My understanding is there has to be a circuit between flesh and the blade for the brake to trip. You can easily research this on your own and see if I'm right or not.

I know wet wood won't trigger the brake unless is really soaking wet, like slinging water. That's when you test it first, or simply turn the key.

I find it very ironic you're not "down with that feature" even after being "bit enough times". You are a prime example of someone who should have one!! You can be uber careful and have all the confidence in the world, but accidents happen. All of us have been or will be in that situation where you're doing repetitive tasks and the mental alertness factor is dulled.

In the end its your choice, of course, but base it on valid information, not that type of testimony. When you get bit the next time you might regret valuing 120 bucks more than a digit?

 

[Warped Woodwerks]

Who the heck is so hot that they are dripping sweat all over their cast iron?
Sure, I get it, I have done plenty of work in my garage on 80+ degree days. In the garage, it is even hotter and more humid, yet, I take precautions so not to fire hose all over my cast iron.

Also, to drip sweat\water exactly on the blade, while it is spinning.. well, what is the % of that happening? Also, if you have the blade guard on, the chance should be 0%.
Sure, people use riving knives, so your chances would be higher than 0%, but still. Where is the current\connection with a drop of sweat touching the blade?

I own a SS and regardless of the safety system, I always treat the saw as if it doesn't have the safety system. Why? because.. I value my digits and if I were to lose 1.. well, it might make my job a little more challenging..

and for your knowledge.. yes, I am a hand model.
Kidding...


Whatever you choose, make sure you research heavily, before you spend those pennies.



Good luck!

 

[Chaz]

Who the heck is so hot that they are dripping sweat all over their cast iron?

Apparently at least one guy.....

I had a gym partner once who sweated so much, it could be seen as pathological. Gross. Having him spot for a bench press was terrifying.

I also had a fishing buddy who could break into a heavy sweat, without even moving. He would sit at my kitchen table, drink a beer and sweat profusely.

Sure, I get it, I have done plenty of work in my garage on 80+ degree days. In the garage, it is even hotter and more humid, yet, I take precautions so not to fire hose all over my cast iron.

I would too.

I own a SS and regardless of the safety system, I always treat the saw as if it doesn't have the safety system. Why? because.. I value my digits and if I were to lose 1.. well, it might make my job a little more challenging..

Something that occurs to me - having that kind of safety feature can lead to a false sense of .... safety.

Like I said earlier, I've been bitten a couple of times (2) on my table saw. Minor stuff. I did go to the ER one time, but mainly because I take blood thinners and the bleeding wouldn't stop. Both times, they were things I could have done better, and believe me, that lesson was not lost on me. You might say my attention to safety on that machine, now, borders on extreme. That wouldn't change on a new machine, even an SS. If I could get one that didn't come with that feature, it would be a different story, but then it wouldn't be an SS anymore, would it?

and for your knowledge.. yes, I am a hand model.
Kidding...

Very good. I always wanted to be a hand model. I settled for being a Lion Tamer - long nose, eats ants?

Whatever you choose, make sure you research heavily, before you spend those pennies.

Good luck!

Thanx!

That's why I started this thread

 

[Chaz]

I am very happy with my Harvey.

Which one do you have?

I've looked at their Lathes - freakin awesome.

 

[Rwe2156]

I'm more aware of safety now with the SS b/c I'm such a tight wad I don't want to buy another cartridge!!

 

[jlwest]

Just my opinion. I am 73 years old. Saw Stops are great but they do not replace proper training in the use of a table saw and can provide a false sense of safety and allow improper technique. Weekend woodworkers need training in the safe operation of many machines. I have been wood working since the age of 12 and started in high school in wood shop. But when times were tough I worked in commercial shops. Always with a Delta table saw. I went through college on a work study program and and they put me in the wood shop with a master woodworker who taught me many things including proper safe operation of the machines. Eye protection was paramount.

 

[Rwe2156]

Just my opinion. I am 73 years old. Saw Stops are great but they do not replace proper training in the use of a table saw and can provide a false sense of safety and allow improper technique. Weekend woodworkers need training in the safe operation of many machines. I have been wood working since the age of 12 and started in high school in wood shop. But when times were tough I worked in commercial shops. Always with a Delta table saw. I went through college on a work study program and and they put me in the wood shop with a master woodworker who taught me many things including proper safe operation of the machines. Eye protection was paramount.

Agree but times have changed and your experience is 1 in 100,000 users in the current day. I totally agree people with no training can buy a table saw. But even when I took shop 50 years ago, we did not have a table saw. The advent of SawStop allows them to be used in teaching shops as well as industrial shops.

I disagree totally in SS causing people to be unsafe.

 

[chris_goris]

Love my PM2000 5HP! been a workhorse with no issues or adjustments required in the 10 years ive had it