An amazing sense of humor

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Still doing all the things to make my new ( to me, built in 1995, but only had 3 years) house up to snuff. Working on energy, leakage, air quality etc. I was thinking about an ERV. So, had an estimate. Amazing. $1200 unit (seems a lot for a box, 2 small fans and a bit of corrugated plastic) a couple hundred in ductwork, and $3500 to install it. $3500 for what I can ( and probably will) do in a couple hours my myself. Don't know what "train" these guys rode in, but they were "trained" to keep a strait face.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
You must be in the trade. They make a margin on the unit price that pays for overhead to get it. An hour to make the call, about 3 to do the work. That is $875 an hour! Not getting on their "train"
 

ConwayCustoms

Rory
Senior User
Those are lawyer rates on top of surgeon rates. I get it, usually you charge a markup of 300% - 900% but, c'mon ..

Price gouging at its finest. From what I've been seeing, if you won't pay the premium price, someone else will.

Fling at the wall and see how much of it sticks. If 3 or 4 out of 10 stick, that's a profitable business.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Second bid on Monday, but I am guessing I get to do it myself.
I will gladly pay a fair price for fair work. Crawling around under the house is not as fun as it used to be, and I hate ductwork. ( more to do for my dust collector) For $2000, he might have had the job. For $2500, might have discussed it with the wife.

300 to 900%. Not with Amazon you don't. We ship in turnips in rail cars now, not carts. $1200 retail, they should not be paying over 600 or 700 so that is already 100% which is reasonable to be in business.
 

ConwayCustoms

Rory
Senior User
For that alone... Owners daughter laughing and making a comment about being used to the extra $$, I'd cancel my service and make sure to share the knowledge online, with others... ?

Bad business right there, imo.

$175? Please. Look at this! *Brandishing something shiny*

One of my friends went to medical school, graduated with over $450k in student loans. I can see why he charges what he charges but, c'mon. Plumbers aren't doctors...so what's with the absurd pricing?

I work in the field of technology, so I guess everytime someone asks me a technical question, I should make a similar comment. "I could help you but, I'll have to charge you a minimum of $xxx.xx.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Energy Recovery Ventilator. Similar to a Heat Recovery Ventilator except the core also transfers moisture. A way to get fresh air into the house without losing too much energy. About 50% in reality. I could leave a window open and never break the $5000 in energy bills!

My consulting fee was a 6-pack. That way it was clear I was not in business and assumed no liability if my advice/fix did not work.
 

Oka

Board of Directors, Vice President
Casey
Staff member
Corporate Member
Just to compare-a 40,000 BTU water source heat pump us about 4.3-5000.00 bucks give or take. The unit takes about 4 hours to install.
Produces heat/cold and will produce all the hot water you need in the house by a super-deheating exchange coil. And, this unit uses less electricity than a normal DX HVAC ..... supposedly.
I have never been sold on ERV units for residential mostly, because the performance claims all these units. Both performance specs the ERV and WSHP have are lab setting testing.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Just to compare-a 40,000 BTU water source heat pump us about 4.3-5000.00 bucks give or take. The unit takes about 4 hours to install.
Produces heat/cold and will produce all the hot water you need in the house by a super-deheating exchange coil. And, this unit uses less electricity than a normal DX HVAC ..... supposedly.
I have never been sold on ERV units for residential mostly, because the performance claims all these units. Both performance specs the ERV and WSHP have are lab setting testing.
Yes, most are for perfect conditions and as I am not in Hawaii , I don't live in perfect. :) THE smaller cross-flow, like the Trane, are roughly 50% efficient. The larger linear flow can be as much as 80% as they have far more surface area. There are some objective tests out there.

I have a gas tankless DHW and a high efficiency gas furnace. Most of my electric bill goes to the mini-split in my workshop.

When building new, you can do clever things like drop a ground loop in the septic trench for a low cost geo-thermal. A friend has a large lake, so he tossed a 500 foot roll of plastic in the bottom of it. Lots of smart things to do if you can. Expensive for older house.
My main concern is air quality. Reasonably tight house, but two dogs and who knows what else. Goal is for fresher air, not super efficiency.

I was looking into solar as I have a perfect roof for it, but in NC, it is rigged where you have to buy it all yourself. Payback is about 35 years on a system with a 10 year life span. In MD, you could lease your roof. No cost, and got about 2/3 of the electricity cost back. No maintenance.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
Pulling fresh air into a home seems like a great idea, not standard practice here in the US.

Personally I believe the new homes built today are so tight with little leakage, that it promotes mold growth where there is enough humidity in summer.

I some countries allowing fresh air to enter is building code.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Pulling fresh air into a home seems like a great idea, not standard practice here in the US.

Personally I believe the new homes built today are so tight with little leakage, that it promotes mold growth where there is enough humidity in summer.

I some countries allowing fresh air to enter is building code.
Exactly.
 

Oka

Board of Directors, Vice President
Casey
Staff member
Corporate Member
Many units sold allow you to set your fresh air intake. Usually, they are set @ 5% for efficiency reasons, and if I remember correctly, that is the min code requirement for ducted systems.... not a fan. When I lived in NC I set mine @ 20%.
In Hawaii, the WSHP really are not the way to go , the Delta-T here is too narrow. But, that is what the Military are sold on as of late.
@Willemjm I agree, buildings are built so tight, they create all sorts of issues that then, you have to add cost to address, when all you really need is not to make the building airtight. Buildings need to breathe.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Yup, but the goal is to control where and how the house breathes. Mostly for pollen and humidity. We have very bad allergies. And dogs.
My second trailer in Colorado was so tight, I left a window open in the day, closed it at night. Humidity was not an issue. For us, it is about air quality. I am going to have some tests done, by a company that does not sell solutions, to see where we are at. My furnace has a MERV 15 filter, but it must be imperfect as I see dust in the ducts.

SOP here is probably 50 years behind what we know is smart.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
User
Second company even funnier.
First, they want to upgrade my furnace filter to a MERV 13. Well, it has a MERV 15 already. ( they wanted $4000 for the filter) Claims the ERV must have a dedicated circuit. ( pulls less than an amp) Not by code, only by suggestion from manufacturer, not a requirement. Could not understand using the crawlspace as the exiting air path. Could not see any reason it was not good, just had never thought of it.
 
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Reactions: Oka

Oka

Board of Directors, Vice President
Casey
Staff member
Corporate Member
Wow, just wow......... it is the "Limbo" ethics dance......... how low can you go........
 

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