Still a toy
- Thread starter tvrgeek
- Start date
So I don't miss out, did a survey of 12 inch combo machines. Several are as cheap as a 15 inch planer.
Hammer $6K and Minimax $5K I guess are the class of the field.
Grizzly is the cheap one at $3K, yet 5 HP. ( I can guess the motor quality, but it would probably outlast me)
All the rest seem to be variations of the same Jet. Jet, Rikon, King, CWI, Baleigh, etc. from 3 to 5K.
Reviews all seem to suggest they work. All complain on fit and finish of the Jet based not what it was. Seems SOP across the board for them. Cutter head differences, some have planer infeed extensions, some not.
But I see HUGE differences in pricing. For instance, Rikon from $3500 to $4800. Did some measuring and it may actually make sense space wise for one bigger tool rather than two smaller. Doing the same thinking. I have a 12 inch disk sander and a spindle sander. Would the WEN belt/spindle ( Ridgid) do the same job in less space? Gad are we talking a lot of money.
Hammer $6K and Minimax $5K I guess are the class of the field.
Grizzly is the cheap one at $3K, yet 5 HP. ( I can guess the motor quality, but it would probably outlast me)
All the rest seem to be variations of the same Jet. Jet, Rikon, King, CWI, Baleigh, etc. from 3 to 5K.
Reviews all seem to suggest they work. All complain on fit and finish of the Jet based not what it was. Seems SOP across the board for them. Cutter head differences, some have planer infeed extensions, some not.
But I see HUGE differences in pricing. For instance, Rikon from $3500 to $4800. Did some measuring and it may actually make sense space wise for one bigger tool rather than two smaller. Doing the same thinking. I have a 12 inch disk sander and a spindle sander. Would the WEN belt/spindle ( Ridgid) do the same job in less space? Gad are we talking a lot of money.
More data:
Glued up an 8 1/2 wide red oak block.
Got it flat. Then tested with 1/64 cut draws 16A. 1/32 cut draws 20A. Did the cut with no problem, but I let it cool between cuts and my board is only 18 inches long. So, again, it is the duty cycle of a too small universal motor.
Again, that it is rated for 15A and has a 15A plug is inexcusable. 20A is not peak, it is continuous. That is it a 13 inch planer should have a qualifier. Maybe for balsa.
I look forward to seeing the Jet and Powermatic's 15's this weekend.
I did one small mod. I added a thin wood shim behind the red indicator to reduce the parallax error in reading the scale. A bit if fiddling, and it is useable to less than 1/32 without adding a Wixey. If I raised the stand so it was easier to see, and put on a magnifying index off a table saw, it would probably be good to 1/64. I got a Taytool caliper. It was way off, but with a little bending and slight recontour of the fingers, it is accurate to a line width, better than a 64th (Confirmed with my fancy iGaging digital)
Glued up an 8 1/2 wide red oak block.
Got it flat. Then tested with 1/64 cut draws 16A. 1/32 cut draws 20A. Did the cut with no problem, but I let it cool between cuts and my board is only 18 inches long. So, again, it is the duty cycle of a too small universal motor.
Again, that it is rated for 15A and has a 15A plug is inexcusable. 20A is not peak, it is continuous. That is it a 13 inch planer should have a qualifier. Maybe for balsa.
I look forward to seeing the Jet and Powermatic's 15's this weekend.
I did one small mod. I added a thin wood shim behind the red indicator to reduce the parallax error in reading the scale. A bit if fiddling, and it is useable to less than 1/32 without adding a Wixey. If I raised the stand so it was easier to see, and put on a magnifying index off a table saw, it would probably be good to 1/64. I got a Taytool caliper. It was way off, but with a little bending and slight recontour of the fingers, it is accurate to a line width, better than a 64th (Confirmed with my fancy iGaging digital)
Unfortunate to hear your results with the 735. I think this is one of those cases where there isn't much to replace good old heavy cast iron and an induction motor. Wish there was something that was a bit lighter and easier to get into my basement though.
Planers with helical heads seem to fall into two groups. The top crank, ( rib belt, lighter weight) and the side crank,( v-belt, heavier units.) Small differences in base and cutter heads. So it looks like two OEMs for all of them.
PM is an older heavy design, fixed head. As usual, Griz is cheapest. Difference is probably the motor. The outliers have a different head. ( Oliver and Baileigh) Laguna only has a larger 5 HP.
Most companies look like stock is expected by September. Not just planers, but most machines from most companies. So for now, I just have to limit the duty cycle and the 735 does the job. Is my patience worth 3 grand? I am cheap, but I expect things to work.
MalwareBytes identified the Oliver site as containing a trojan. It may be a real threat, it may just look like one. I contacted three resellers about it and got NO reply from any. I tend to trust MalwareBytes. I do not have a direct e-mail or phone support for Oliver to talk to them without going to their WEB, which I will not do.
PM is an older heavy design, fixed head. As usual, Griz is cheapest. Difference is probably the motor. The outliers have a different head. ( Oliver and Baileigh) Laguna only has a larger 5 HP.
Most companies look like stock is expected by September. Not just planers, but most machines from most companies. So for now, I just have to limit the duty cycle and the 735 does the job. Is my patience worth 3 grand? I am cheap, but I expect things to work.
MalwareBytes identified the Oliver site as containing a trojan. It may be a real threat, it may just look like one. I contacted three resellers about it and got NO reply from any. I tend to trust MalwareBytes. I do not have a direct e-mail or phone support for Oliver to talk to them without going to their WEB, which I will not do.
Visited Bill's and Phil's shops. Leaving Bill's, I was convinced the Jet would do a fine job. Saw no problems and it did a nice job,
Then I visited Phil. Well the PM is way more massive, smoother to adjust and yes, the cut was even better.
Several on LJ suggested the DW breakers are known to be crap and fatigue. Maybe a smart cheapskate fix is a higher quality breaker*, but I WANT a 15.
* I will replace it with at least OE before I sell it anyway.
Then I visited Phil. Well the PM is way more massive, smoother to adjust and yes, the cut was even better.
Several on LJ suggested the DW breakers are known to be crap and fatigue. Maybe a smart cheapskate fix is a higher quality breaker*, but I WANT a 15.
* I will replace it with at least OE before I sell it anyway.
Darn - now I have planer inferiority complexVisited Bill's and Phil's shops. Leaving Bill's, I was convinced the Jet would do a fine job. Saw no problems and it did a nice job,
Then I visited Phil. Well the PM is way more massive, smoother to adjust and yes, the cut was even better.
Several on LJ suggested the DW breakers are known to be crap and fatigue. Maybe a smart cheapskate fix is a higher quality breaker*, but I WANT a 15.
* I will replace it with at least OE before I sell it anyway.
Still hanging on to your DeWalt 735, or did you upgrade?
Reason I ask is that I was looking at your list that you posted previously (PM, South Bend, Oliver, etc.) and I'm leaning towards 2-3 of the machines that were on your list.
Thanks
Just can't afford the PowerMatic, but it is the one I want. I compared a PM with a Jet and the surface quality difference was huge. Not that the Jet was bad, by all means, just the PM was better. Key: number of cutters. Does that mean the Laguna can match it? Don't know.
New breakers seem to be holding up for now. These cheap bi-metallic breakers fatigue quickly, so after it trips a few times, it will trip at lower and lower currents.
So, I rough out my boards with a scrub plane and only take "half crank" cuts.
I am still discussed with both DeWalt for making a 20 A machine in a 15A cord and plug and for UL and CSA to give their seal of approval. It is a universal motor, so could have been a dual voltage so we could run them on 220 like my old Sears RAS and my old Ridgid TS. Shop use, 220. Site use, 110.
As I noticed overstock on some suppliers, I may watch again, but the PM cost is just out of budget.
New breakers seem to be holding up for now. These cheap bi-metallic breakers fatigue quickly, so after it trips a few times, it will trip at lower and lower currents.
So, I rough out my boards with a scrub plane and only take "half crank" cuts.
I am still discussed with both DeWalt for making a 20 A machine in a 15A cord and plug and for UL and CSA to give their seal of approval. It is a universal motor, so could have been a dual voltage so we could run them on 220 like my old Sears RAS and my old Ridgid TS. Shop use, 220. Site use, 110.
As I noticed overstock on some suppliers, I may watch again, but the PM cost is just out of budget.
I just tried them. Did you go to "Woodworking Machines, Tools and Equipment - Oliver Machinery" or ".com"?
.net is the correct site. .com generates a warning.
Yeah, the PM is a tough pill to swallow, even with their 10% off sale. It seems like the "best" choice, but no DRO, p!$$ poor casters, but you do get a 5 year warranty. Whatever that means, these days.
Also, it is crazy how the prices have changed, since your initial post, in July 2021. 1.5 years and the PM has jumped up $1,000, Baileigh has jumped up $800, and South Bend has basically stayed the same. Not sure on the other planers you mentioned, but I am sure those jumped in price, too.
The Baileigh IP156-HH looks 99.99% like the PM, but only 1 year warranty. Sure, you could save yourself ~$400, but maybe the extra $400 for the PM would be worth the warranty coverage?
Also, at the price points of $4k+, one might start considering the Hammer\Minimax JP's, if space is an issue. Woodmizer has a JP, that you don't need to change over from a jointer to planer\planer to jointer, but no option for helical. Also, it is $5,400+ (sale currently). MP160 Jointer Planer. You can joint a 12" and plane a 16" board.. which is great, but then again... way over the price of the PM and if one can't currently afford one of these 15" planers, this Woodmizer option (as well as Hammer, Minimax, etc.) would 100% be out of the equation.
It is always nice to dream.. and trust me.. I am dreaming about these tools almost daily... "Sure would be nice to have...."
Glad you are still enjoying your 735. My 734 is still "resting", and has been, for the last 3-3.5 years.
Also, it is crazy how the prices have changed, since your initial post, in July 2021. 1.5 years and the PM has jumped up $1,000, Baileigh has jumped up $800, and South Bend has basically stayed the same. Not sure on the other planers you mentioned, but I am sure those jumped in price, too.
The Baileigh IP156-HH looks 99.99% like the PM, but only 1 year warranty. Sure, you could save yourself ~$400, but maybe the extra $400 for the PM would be worth the warranty coverage?
Also, at the price points of $4k+, one might start considering the Hammer\Minimax JP's, if space is an issue. Woodmizer has a JP, that you don't need to change over from a jointer to planer\planer to jointer, but no option for helical. Also, it is $5,400+ (sale currently). MP160 Jointer Planer. You can joint a 12" and plane a 16" board.. which is great, but then again... way over the price of the PM and if one can't currently afford one of these 15" planers, this Woodmizer option (as well as Hammer, Minimax, etc.) would 100% be out of the equation.
It is always nice to dream.. and trust me.. I am dreaming about these tools almost daily... "Sure would be nice to have...."
Glad you are still enjoying your 735. My 734 is still "resting", and has been, for the last 3-3.5 years.
I run mine for long periods
