Opinions please, kitchen design

[Willemjm]

My kitchen design so far....

Kitchen with two pantries, saving cabinet work with a whole lot of extra space, or should the pantries be replaced by cabinets? Your opinion.

Don't sweat the cabinet design too much, just conceptual. The island needs seating space on the right hand side and the cherry cabinets have Maple panels where there should be Cherry. Also, the granite shows tiles, just a software tweak I have not fixed yet.

If you need an idea of size, the center island is a full granite slab, 5 x 9.

So the question is do the pantries go or not?

 

[Gofor]

Your kitchen, or the wife's? If not the first, consult with the second.:wsmile: Whomever cooks would be the best decision maker IMHO.

Pantries are great, but have also found kitchen (and shop) cabinets are like clamps. Can't have too many.

Go

 

[mbromley]

I feel like visually the pantry doors are a bit over bearing and will make the kitchen look smaller. I would probably go with more cabinets to make it look more cohesive.

 

[chris_goris]

My kitchen design so far....

Kitchen with two pantries, saving cabinet work with a whole lot of extra space, or should the pantries be replaced by cabinets? Your opinion.

Don't sweat the cabinet design too much, just conceptual. The island needs seating space on the right hand side and the cherry cabinets have Maple panels where there should be Cherry. Also, the granite shows tiles, just a software tweak I have not fixed yet.

If you need an idea of size, the center island is a full granite slab, 5 x 9.

So the question is do the pantries go or not?

Those old school walk in pantries are a huge waste of floor space. Many are simply very deep closets and things just get lost in them. You can get much better use by building a pantry cabinet with pullout drawers.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

We miss the large pantry we had in the last house. I would keep at least one of them.

 

[JohnnyR]

Willem, First I'd ditch the pantry to the left of the sink. The cabinet to the left of the micro really throws off the look of that wall although I see that there isn't much choice. Then I'd switch the fridge and ovens so that the fridge is nearer the sink and work space on the island - imagine how you take stuff out and place it somewhere where you're going to work with it. With the other pantry ( and I love having a pantry, I would move the door wall back to be flush with the cabinet fronts, or if you want to keep it at 45 deg. flush with the long wall cabinets. That'll still leave up to 22" shelves on one side and narrower on the other which should be more than enough. As it is now, working at the sink will feel closed in even with the window. I've got a full slab island (with sink rather than cooktop) with seating under the long side so no cabinets. Even though there's plenty of room to move around the stools, it's nice to slide them under the slab when not in use - no backs to the stools so standing and working or serving on that side of the slab is nice. Good luck!

 

[Raymond]

Willem, you could always put rotating shelves in the pantry - that way nothing would ever be hidden in the back.

 

[Graywolf]

Over all a very good design, the pantries are fine depending how you use them. I think it could be fun to design the interior of the pantries to see how you want to use the space. Just saying.

 

[Willemjm]

Willem, First I'd ditch the pantry to the left of the sink. The cabinet to the left of the micro really throws off the look of that wall although I see that there isn't much choice. Then I'd switch the fridge and ovens so that the fridge is nearer the sink and work space on the island - imagine how you take stuff out and place it somewhere where you're going to work with it. With the other pantry ( and I love having a pantry, I would move the door wall back to be flush with the cabinet fronts, or if you want to keep it at 45 deg. flush with the long wall cabinets. That'll still leave up to 22" shelves on one side and narrower on the other which should be more than enough. As it is now, working at the sink will feel closed in even with the window. I've got a full slab island (with sink rather than cooktop) with seating under the long side so no cabinets. Even though there's plenty of room to move around the stools, it's nice to slide them under the slab when not in use - no backs to the stools so standing and working or serving on that side of the slab is nice. Good luck!

Thanks all, nice input so far!!!! Keep them coming!!!

I was kind of trying to copy some of my last kitchen, which really flowed well, but the pantry was not inside the kitchen space.

 

[ehpoole]

In addition to the other comments, I would find the cabinet with what I presume to be the microwave to be a real head knocker as the cabinet seems to extend as far out as the counter, so anyone leaning into or over the counter in that area is at a real risk of hitting that cabinet, or worse the corner of that cabinet. You will also need good undercabibet lighting in that location as it is liable to be a very dark nook.

While the pair of pantries do create a symmetry, the one next the the refrigerator is really forcing a lot of physical separation between the "triangle" that is defined by the sink, refrigerator, and oven/cooktop as you typically want to minimize the distance between each of these since most kitchen traffic tends to consist of moving between these three (or four if separating oven and cooktop) locations.

Also, have you accounted for a vent hood, whether above or a downdraft type vent and ducting under the floor, for the cooktop?

You will also want to give a bit of advance thought as to where you wish to place receptacles, lighting switches, undercabinet lights, and how many receptacle circuits you will need in your kitchen to ensure they are all properly located before the cabinetry is installed and that necessary wall space has been allowed for each and that there is at least one receptacle for every four feet of linear counter space. You will want at least two main receptacle circuits in your kitchen with the microwave, refrigerator, garbage disposal and dishwasher each on separate circuits of their own (as well as 240V circuits for ovens and cooktops), but if you regularly use a lot of high wattage counter top appliances, and especially if using things like toasters and toaster ovens concurrently, then you may need more than two receptacle circuits distributed along your counters. Don't forget to include receptacles at each end of the island counter since that is likely your main workspace.

These were my initial thoughts, but ultimately you have to define the kitchen that will work best for your family in the space available and I wish you all the best in your remodel.

 

[Willemjm]

Thanks everyone.

I am going to miss my old pantry, but after pondering this and listening to all of you the pantries will go. Those corners lend themselves to some nice cabinet ideas, including corner cabinets right up to the ceiling.
So, back to the drawing board.

Those who responded, some interesting information. The software does cost based on current sheet goods prices and lumber prices which I updated and then all the hardware such as hinges, slides etc. As drawn, only sheet goods, 3/4 Maple pre-finished one side 1/4" Maple pre-finished both sides, a little Cherry ply and the Cherry lumber came to $2,088. Looks like the prices for purchased cabinets are labor, overheads, margin and distribution and the expensive granite counter tops. Spraying the face frames and doors, the finish materials will probably be less than $100.

 

[zapdafish]

I might consider a bigger window with a ledge to put flowers/herbs and such on. I love natural light.

I'd also definitely consider light switch placement, I have 4 sets of lights in my kitchen and I can't turn them all on at the same place. I don't need all of them on all the time but it seems to me they should all be controllable at one place with a second switch closer if needed.

 

[ntboardman]

Thanks everyone.

I am going to miss my old pantry, but after pondering this and listening to all of you the pantries will go. Those corners lend themselves to some nice cabinet ideas, including corner cabinets right up to the ceiling.
So, back to the drawing board.

Those who responded, some interesting information. The software does cost based on current sheet goods prices and lumber prices which I updated and then all the hardware such as hinges, slides etc. As drawn, only sheet goods, 3/4 Maple pre-finished one side 1/4" Maple pre-finished both sides, a little Cherry ply and the Cherry lumber came to $2,088. Looks like the prices for purchased cabinets are labor, overheads, margin and distribution and the expensive granite counter tops. Spraying the face frames and doors, the finish materials will probably be less than $100.

Willem,
Not sure if you're planning to stay in this house forever, but if you aren't keeping at least 1 pantry is best for resale. You can also always put more melamine storage options in your pantry to give it a ton of extra space and finish quality. Nothing worse in my opinion than a nice house with nice cabinets and the pantry just has wire shelves. Just some other thoughts.

 

[Bear Republic]

Willem, your previous kitchen looks great and well laid out.

I’m the cook of the family and going to go through this process for our new house in a few years.

Here are some random thoughts:
I would keep the right side pantry, it would be easier to go to one place to get what you need, verses opening several cabinets. To make it work for the best you would need to define what will go in there and how, shelves/Racks/cabinets. The cabinets on either side of the window could be a little larger to me.
For the overall kitchen, how far apart is the island from the counters, it looks to be close to the sink but a ways from the other sides. Will all of the prep be done on the island? The other counter space may not work well for that. So what will go where in your kitchen? Mapping out the cabinets will be helpful. Have many small appliances? Are they left on the counter or put away. I have a small skinny pantry that I have converted to an “appliance garage”, so I take out what I need and then put it away. I’ve seen them within the cabinets structures and stand alone.
Think over what you will be doing in the kitchen. Food prep, unloading groceries, … Eat in kitchen, entertaining small or large. Items taken out of the oven, where do they get placed to cool off? With all of that planned out, you can then review the cabinet, power, and space needs.

 

[Willemjm]

Willem, your previous kitchen looks great and well laid out.

I’m the cook of the family and going to go through this process for our new house in a few years.

Here are some random thoughts:
I would keep the right side pantry, it would be easier to go to one place to get what you need, verses opening several cabinets. To make it work for the best you would need to define what will go in there and how, shelves/Racks/cabinets. The cabinets on either side of the window could be a little larger to me.
For the overall kitchen, how far apart is the island from the counters, it looks to be close to the sink but a ways from the other sides. Will all of the prep be done on the island? The other counter space may not work well for that. So what will go where in your kitchen? Mapping out the cabinets will be helpful. Have many small appliances? Are they left on the counter or put away. I have a small skinny pantry that I have converted to an “appliance garage”, so I take out what I need and then put it away. I’ve seen them within the cabinets structures and stand alone.
Think over what you will be doing in the kitchen. Food prep, unloading groceries, … Eat in kitchen, entertaining small or large. Items taken out of the oven, where do they get placed to cool off? With all of that planned out, you can then review the cabinet, power, and space needs.

Thanks

The nice thing is I have lots of time to plan and design. It will probably be a couple of months before building starts and I will have lots of time to build the cabinets while the house goes up. One idea about the small appliances is to have them on a sliding out tray, opened and closed by a tambour door. BTW, previous post about those wire racks. Never had any of those, I use 3/4 pre-finished Maple ply and put a 1 1/2" bull nose edge on the front of each shelf. My walk-in closets always have custom designed cabinets in them.

 

[Bear Republic]

One idea about the small appliances is to have them on a sliding out tray, opened and closed by a tambour door. BTW, previous post about those wire racks. Never had any of those, I use 3/4 pre-finished Maple ply and put a 1 1/2" bull nose edge on the front of each shelf.

I've seen wire racks in pantries also. Not the best for the purpose. I was referring to canned goods racks or other organizational. I plan on using some in my future pantry.

For the appliances, on the pull out, think about power cords. Pulling them in and out is something to think about. The slide out is a good idea. I've even seen a pull out rack for a kitchenaid mixer. Neat idea to deal with the weight. I've learned that cleanup needs to be thought about too. A pull out toaster will drop crumbs.

 

[Ecr1]

One thing you might think about is doing deep drawers instead of all those doors in the lowers. Especially if you were planning pull outs there. Pull outs behind doors just creates a extra step to get to your supplies. Most of the kitchens I have done in the last few years have had mostly deep drawers in the lowers. Seems to be the current trend. Also a slab of granite that big at the island is going to be close to 700 lbs after the cut outs. Make sure the floor system can handle the extra weight. Just curious how many board feet Was estimated to do door and drawer fronts and face frames. Hope your kitchen project goes well.

 

[Willemjm]

Done, without the pantries. Will plug in all the appliances, hinges, slides and other hardware tomorrow to get final costs.

Sheet goods and lumber running around $5,500 now.

 

[Graywolf]

I like this version as well, I agree you should try a three draw stack giving yourself some pots and pan drawers

 

[Willemjm]

Anyone interested here are some details for the kitchen as designed, using nesting optimization for the ply.

42 sheets of plywood

330 bd/ft 4/4 Cherry

The columns shown are not included, they are out of 5" x 5" square stock 35 inches long at $90 a piece. I may make them at around $24 a piece depending on time constraints.

Next I have to design a full wet bar.

Any input on wholesale plywood suppliers will be appreciated, the normal retail vendors are a bit steep in price for this kind of volume, which will grow as I design further.


PS. I used eCabinets software from Thermwood to design. A bit of a pain when used to professional stuff like Solidworks, but it got the job done and the automatic cut lists, nesting and material costs including hinges, slides, hardware etc. came in pretty handy.