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  1. #1
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    Japanese Dovetail/cross cut blade replacement

    Over the years I have heard many woodworkers who like the Japanese saws for fine work say they love their saw. When I look at the saw and the tooth pattern I ask how it cuts. The responses are usually the same. Great.

    If they look puzzled or they ask why I am curious about their saw, I will engage and roll.

    https://www.amazon.com/Gyokucho-372-...ustomerReviews

    Rather than bore you with details, there are 3 blades for the Gyokucho handle system. If you are on a budget you might want to try the one crosscut and one rip.

    370 and 371 for cross-cut work
    372 is for ripping but it can cut a nice line across some hardwood.

    Amazon has a blade only for this saw

    https://www.amazon.com/Razorsaw-Dozu...i+Takebiki+Saw

    I have this blade and it is insane for the price. 18 bucks and you are cutting.

    Take a look on Amazon.









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  3. #2
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    Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Dan
    My question is unrelated to this specific saw, but to usage of this type of saw, and choices of type or category.

    I just tried a 'pull saw' yesterday for the first time - full disclosure it was an $8 HF version that I decided to try b/c I wanted something I could keep in the vehicle and use when I needed a quick hand saw. The type I purchased had no spline on it, so very much like what you show. I can't vouch for quality, or compare it to any other saw b/c I have never used a pull saw before. I have used it twice in quick cuts where I judged it (being 'cordless') to likely be faster than pulling out the cord and saws-all or circular saw. Despite it being a 15 tpi 'fine cut' saw, i was quickly able to roughly cross cut a 2x6 and later trim some 4-5" diameter branches with relative ease.

    In my 'used to western saw' hands I noticed that I am bending the blade (no kinks, just bends), likely because I am pushing the saw down in the cut on the push stroke of these aggressive 'get-this-done-quickly' cut. Muscle memory is more powerful than my attention span I guess, because I was trying not to bear down on the push stroke. I could envision that if I were cutting dovetails that I would be taking more time and then I might be less likely to do this.

    Question 1: How have you managed to avoid this? Better attention span is easiest answer, but I am hoping there are other answers.

    Question 2: I have seen pictures of what appear to be similar saws, but with splines (stiffener rails on the top edge) like a back saw. What are these used for? Seems like a spline might help with my bending the saw tendency - or it might just mask my bad habits. Thoughts?

    Clearly the spline would limit the depth of cut and would not be appropriate for a rip saw... but I am in no danger of become a pure Neanderthal - I am interested in learning to cut dovetails that don't look like they are cut with a dovetail jig, and so would likely see myself using such a saw for limited depth cuts such as in a dove tail or other joinery type cuts.
    Henry W
    Prolific creator of sawdust, and sometimes shavings - with the occasional completed project.

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    Re: Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Question 1: How have you managed to avoid this?
    Not sure what "this" is but I assume it's the saw blade flexing??
    I don't use Japanese saws to trim trees. I think Western saws are more fitting. The saw you are using is about the bottom of the barrel for starters but it could be useful for some small stuff - not cutting dovetail joints.

    If you go back to the first post, there are 2 different blade photos. The first one is a Dozuki dovetail saw. It has a back in this case made of steel. Many have brass backs but cost more for no functional reason.

    The second blade is a replacement for the saw in the first photo. It is not a flimsy and flapping blade like the one I think you have?
    Look carefully at the first saw photo- you will see a strong back and you will see a screw that you undo the blade and fit the replacement in the strong-back and go back to work. Very clever.





    Question 2:
    I have seen pictures of what appear to be similar saws, but with splines (stiffener rails on the top edge) like a back saw. What are these used for? Seems like a spline might help with my bending the saw tendency - or it might just mask my bad habits. Thoughts?

    Do yourself a favor now and put the saw from HF in a drawer. Give it to a kid who cuts your grass.
    Buy yourself a saw like the one in the first post. The Gyokucho is the best saw that I have found in recent years for cutting fine joinery. For 20 bucks you can pop the blade out and put another in and go back to work.

    Clearly the spline would limit the depth of cut and would not be appropriate for a rip saw... but I am in no danger of become a pure Neanderthal - I am interested in learning to cut dovetails that don't look like they are cut with a dovetail jig, and so would likely see myself using such a saw for limited depth cuts such as in a dove tail or other joinery type cuts.

    The 372 is a rip saw blade. It is not going to cut long grain on an 8' board. It is designed to cut short lengths with the grain like the pins in the earlier post.

    I am working pretty steady getting some things out the door. If you call or PM I might give you some other notes. I am retired, I DO NOT use text messaging as a rule.

    Hope this helps




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    Re: Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Quote Originally Posted by danmart77 View Post
    Hope this helps
    Sure does help, thanks Dan. Always appreciate your advice and experience.
    Henry W
    Prolific creator of sawdust, and sometimes shavings - with the occasional completed project.

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    Re: Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Welcome to Japanese pull cut saws.

    The type I purchased had no spline on it, so very much like what you show.
    The one in Dan's first picture has a spline to stiffen the blade. Dovetails usually aren't very long so a narrower blade (with a spline) is typical for that fine work.

    I have this set from Lee Valley and replacement blades available. The Dozuki dovetail blade is about 1.5" wide.

    http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...=1,42884,50663

    Types of Japanese saws and what they're used for.

    https://www.woodcraft.com/blog_entri...-japanese-saws

    https://www.japanwoodworker.com/blog...-japanese-saws
    Last edited by Jeff; 02-13-2019 at 02:36 PM.

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    Re: Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry W View Post
    Question 1: How have you managed to avoid this? Better attention span is easiest answer, but I am hoping there are other answers.
    I believe I have a better answer. I've been using pull saws exclusively for a while, and have taught others how to use them. The best and most successful tip I have is to use a pinch hold on the saw between the first two fingers and the thumb while learning how it cuts. You'll think it can't possibly cut holding it like this, but it will cut, and cut well. It's practically impossible to put much pressure on the saw doing this, which allows the saw itself to do the cutting instead of the sawyer. Try this and see what you think.
    "Trials burn away the impurities in one's character & life that good times never do." Jeff Ford

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    Re: Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrye View Post
    I believe I have a better answer. I've been using pull saws exclusively for a while, and have taught others how to use them. The best and most successful tip I have is to use a pinch hold on the saw between the first two fingers and the thumb while learning how it cuts. You'll think it can't possibly cut holding it like this, but it will cut, and cut well. It's practically impossible to put much pressure on the saw doing this, which allows the saw itself to do the cutting instead of the sawyer. Try this and see what you think.
    Sounds like something I'll try. Doesn't sound intuitive though.
    Henry W
    Prolific creator of sawdust, and sometimes shavings - with the occasional completed project.

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    Re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut blade replacement

    Henry, I didn't see this answer but the replacement blade that Dan linked us all to is just that, a replacement blade. On my Japanese Dovetail saw, when I remove the blade, the spine pulls off the top of the blade, therefore, when replacing the blade with the one Dan referenced, I'd push on my spine, then slip the handle on and tighten up the lock screw to hold it all together. Here's the saw complete with handle, spine, and blade:

    https://www.amazon.com/Gyokucho-372-...w+dovetail+saw

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    Re: Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry W View Post
    Sounds like something I'll try. Doesn't sound intuitive though.
    Henry, it isn't intuitive, nor is it intended to be a regular operating method. It trains the mind through focused attention to learn to use a light hand, and to pull the saw into the substrate instead of trying to push it through it. The return stroke (forward) then becomes a matter of simply letting the saw blade glide over the substrate being cut.
    "Trials burn away the impurities in one's character & life that good times never do." Jeff Ford

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    Re: Questions re: Japanese Dovetail/cross cut saw usage

    Understood, thanks Jerry.

    It is both my mind and my muscles that need retraining for use of a pull saw.
    For me 1 out of 2 is not bad - old dog, new tricks and all that.
    I'll persevere though. Thanks for the tips.
    Henry W
    Prolific creator of sawdust, and sometimes shavings - with the occasional completed project.

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