Klingspor's Woodworking Shop (Locations) Ad #1

Special Events in the next 30 days

Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Fuming ...

  1. #1
    User
    Nickname
    Dorm
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    48
    Visit Freq
    0.69 visits/week
    Threads
    19
    Classifieds
    0

    Fuming ...

    So ... I've been curious about fuming and decided to look at using this process for a project I'm doing now, using red oak material. Prior to doing anything with the project I decided to do some test pieces with BLO wiped on or not, and to better understand the affect fuming had on the wood. And so for my test cases, I poured ~1/4 cup Janitorial strength ammonia into a couple of Tupperware bowls with lids on; allowed the pieces to soak for a length of time and was somewhat surprised with the results. Posted in the pics below are 4 pieces of scrap material from the project, and from top to bottom the differences between the pieces are:


    1. Fumed for 3 days, and wiped down the piece with BLO prior to putting it in the bowl
    2. Fumed for 1 day with BLO wiped on
    3. Fumed for 3 days with no BLO applied
    4. Raw piece of the wood ... no fuming or BLO


    Just some observations from me are: I was surprised how the addition of BLO appears to accelerate the darkening process. The top piece is almost black ... like some of the darkest French Roast coffee ever. Perhaps the 'wet' or oiled surface opened the pores and allowed the ammonia fumes to soak in quicker? I used janitorial strength ammonia (10%) from Ace hardware ... it's cheap and easily accessible. Even still - the 10% strength will take your head off!! Based on that, I'm actually fuming my project in an outside area, sitting on a scrap piece of plywood with a small frame wrapped in plastic. Can hardly wait to see the results in the morning.

    If anyone has further thoughts or suggestions ... as always these are appreciated.

    Ciao ... Dorm

    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. The following 2 users say Thank You to Dorm :


  3. #2
    User cyclopentadiene's Avatar
    Nickname
    Update your profile with your name
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    699
    Visit Freq
    3.88 visits/week
    Threads
    126
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    I have done quite a bit of fuming, primarily cherry. The key is the ammonia strength. Amazon will ship the 28% ammonia used primarily for printing. This is the highest concentration you can get in aqueous solution. Generally once you cross the 10% mark, the tolerability is about the same.

    I have found that using 28%, the maximum color change occurs in about 48 hours of exposure. Longer does not afford any additional color.

    another aging technique is to use potassium permanganate solution on the surface. Amazon sells it but I have yet to use it to finish a piece of furniture.

    There red are several posts where I show my fuming chamber.

  4. The following 3 users say Thank You to cyclopentadiene :


  5. #3
    Senior User
    Nickname
    Jeff
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Rougemont, NC
    Posts
    7,596
    Visit Freq
    6.88 visits/week
    Threads
    650
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...



    1. Fumed for 3 days, and wiped down the piece with BLO prior to putting it in the bowl
    2. Fumed for 1 day with BLO wiped on
    3. Fumed for 3 days with no BLO applied
    4. Raw piece of the wood ... no fuming or BLO


    Are you putting BLO on the wood before fuming? Statements 1 and 2 suggest that you are.

  6. The following user says Thank You to Jeff for this useful post:


  7. #4
    User
    DQ
    DanR's Avatar
    Nickname
    Dan
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Hillsborough, NC
    Posts
    280
    Visit Freq
    1.23 visits/week
    Threads
    43
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    I only fumed white oak once, never red. The thing I did different is I only exposed the wood to the fumes, I did not soak it in ammonia. I have seen it done several times, and never soaked. The result was great, I was matching an old dining table that needed some new leaves to extend it.
    Last edited by DanR; 10-03-2018 at 08:11 AM.
    Have a good one,
    Dan

  8. The following user says Thank You to DanR for this useful post:


  9. #5
    Board of Directors
    Treasurer
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    KenOfCary's Avatar
    Nickname
    Ken
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Floyd, VA
    Posts
    7,885
    Visit Freq
    6.81 visits/week
    Threads
    527
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    I have fumed QSWO with the 10% Janitorial strength Ammonia several times, but always just expose the wood to the fumes and not the liquid itself. A low wide pan of ammonia inside a sealed box does the trick. With the 10% I leave it in the fuming box for between 4 days and 1 week.

    I've noticed that the fuming brings out a little bit of greenish color so I usually use a reddish brown dye first since red+green makes brown which is the color I'm going for.
    I don't believe in Astrology. I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical.

    "May the grain be with you" - Roy Underhill

  10. The following user says Thank You to KenOfCary for this useful post:


  11. #6
    Scott Bilicki Corporate Member
    DQ
    Grimmy2016's Avatar
    Nickname
    Scott (42)
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Posts
    336
    Visit Freq
    4.15 visits/week
    Threads
    41
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    Dumb question, are you putting the dye in the ammonia or on the wood first and then fuming?

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOfCary View Post
    I have fumed QSWO with the 10% Janitorial strength Ammonia several times, but always just expose the wood to the fumes and not the liquid itself. A low wide pan of ammonia inside a sealed box does the trick. With the 10% I leave it in the fuming box for between 4 days and 1 week.

    I've noticed that the fuming brings out a little bit of greenish color so I usually use a reddish brown dye first since red+green makes brown which is the color I'm going for.

  12. #7
    User
    Nickname
    Dorm
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    48
    Visit Freq
    0.69 visits/week
    Threads
    19
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    Thanks for the comments, and to ones who've asked ... no I did not allow the wood to sit, float or rest in the ammonia liquid at all. I did write "soak", but what I meant was to allow the fumes to 'soak' or penetrate into the wood ,,, thus your questions. I barely set or hammered some #4 nails into the bottom, wherein the piece was suspended roughly 3/4" above the liquid, and fully exposed to the fumes on all sides.

    And, yes - I did rub on just plain 'ol BLO only, on a couple of the test pieces just before placing them in the bowl to fume. I'm unsure if the BLO was the reason, but the test pieces with the BLO appeared to have more of a light chocolate shade, than green. The pics above show this too, wherein second from the top, with BLO and 24h fume has the chocolate tint ... whereas 3rd from the top (no BLO) and 3 days fume has the greenish tint.

    I am starting another project next week with white oak and will do some test pieces for this as well. I'd really like to get a rich, darker tint on the white oak ... something akin to a weak coffee shade if possible.

    Ken ... you mentioned using a reddish brown dye prior to fuming. I'm assuming this is a wipe on stain that's applied prior to fuming,. Is there a recipe you've put together to get the color at the start? I've mixed Minwax stain before, with mahogany and special walnut to get the tint I was after ... is something like this what you've done? I'd be interested to know your specifics. I'll try the BLO as well as this adds a bit of tint too.

    Ciao ... Dorm
    Last edited by Dorm; 10-03-2018 at 10:41 PM.

  13. The following user says Thank You to Dorm for this useful post:


  14. #8
    Board of Directors
    Treasurer
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    KenOfCary's Avatar
    Nickname
    Ken
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Floyd, VA
    Posts
    7,885
    Visit Freq
    6.81 visits/week
    Threads
    527
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmy2016 View Post
    Dumb question, are you putting the dye in the ammonia or on the wood first and then fuming?
    I dye the wood with water soluble dye and fine sand to get rid of the raised grain, then fume. Dye in Ammonia wouldn't accomplish much as it wouldn't transfer in the fumes.
    I don't believe in Astrology. I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical.

    "May the grain be with you" - Roy Underhill

  15. The following user says Thank You to KenOfCary for this useful post:


  16. #9
    Board of Directors
    Treasurer
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    KenOfCary's Avatar
    Nickname
    Ken
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Floyd, VA
    Posts
    7,885
    Visit Freq
    6.81 visits/week
    Threads
    527
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorm View Post
    Ken ... you mentioned using a reddish brown dye prior to fuming. I'm assuming this is a wipe on stain that's applied prior to fuming,. Is there a recipe you've put together to get the color at the start? I've mixed Minwax stain before, with mahogany and special walnut to get the tint I was after ... is something like this what you've done? I'd be interested to know your specifics. I'll try the BLO as well as this adds a bit of tint too.

    Ciao ... Dorm
    I use a water soluble dye, not stain. It is Transtint "Reddish Brown" dye. This stuff:

    https://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/hs6003/

    It will look way too red or pink even when you finish applying it (at least to White Oak - no experience with Red Oak) but after fuming it will become a very pleasing Dark Brown.

    I brush it on with a foam brush and wipe up any excess after a few minutes with a rag. Then sand the raised grain with 320 grit. Again it will look way too pink but after fuming it is just what I want. I usually use Tried and True brand Varnish Oil as my final finish unless it is a table top and then I will add a coat of two of a harder wiping varnish.

    You can probably find some pictures in my gallery of some of the furniture I've done this with.

    For instance:


    The couch and coffee table were both done this way. The top of the coffee table is Swamp Oak, thus the mineral streaks in it. Picture is a little fuzzy but there are others in the gallery if you want to search a little.
    I don't believe in Astrology. I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical.

    "May the grain be with you" - Roy Underhill

  17. The following 3 users say Thank You to KenOfCary :


  18. #10
    User
    DQ
    scsmith42's Avatar
    Nickname
    Scott Smith
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Hill, NC
    Posts
    5,117
    Visit Freq
    1.54 visits/week
    Threads
    217
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    I’ve done a lot of fuming with 50% laboratory grade ammonia. It is FAST. Typically I can achieve a very dark brown color in 3-4 hours.

    Red oak tends to turn green when fumed with ammonia (in my experience).

    You have to be careful with the 50%; most likely 28% is a better choice for fuming because you have more time to reach the ideal shade.
    Last edited by scsmith42; 10-11-2018 at 11:27 PM.

  19. #11
    Senior User
    DQ

    Nickname
    Zach
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    West Columbia, SC
    Posts
    297
    Visit Freq
    6.73 visits/week
    Threads
    46
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    Ken,

    Did you use the Wood magazine plans for the couch? Or another set of plans? I’m leaning toward building my next living room furniture set.

    Thanks,

    Zach

    Quote Originally Posted by KenOfCary View Post
    I use a water soluble dye, not stain. It is Transtint "Reddish Brown" dye. This stuff:




    The couch and coffee table were both done this way. The top of the coffee table is Swamp Oak, thus the mineral streaks in it. Picture is a little fuzzy but there are others in the gallery if you want to search a little.

  20. #12
    Senior User
    Nickname
    tom
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Clayton, NC
    Posts
    216
    Visit Freq
    6.81 visits/week
    Threads
    34
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    Quote Originally Posted by scsmith42 View Post
    I’ve done a lot of fuming with 50% laboratory grade ammonia. It is FAST. Typically I can achieve a very dark brown color in 3-4 hours.

    Red oak tends to turn green when fumed with ammonia (in my experience).

    You have to be careful with the 50%; most likely 28% is a better choice for fuming because you have more time to reach the ideal shade.


    Not to mention the safety issue.

  21. #13
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    drw's Avatar
    Nickname
    Donn (69)
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Holly Springs, NC
    Posts
    1,053
    Visit Freq
    4.54 visits/week
    Threads
    98
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    A few years back, I fumed a Trestle Table made from QSWO with 10% ammonia for 48 hours. The wood did darken but not quite as much as I wanted; consequently I applied (one application) of a Minwax stain to the table and I was very pleased with the result. Perhaps it was my imagination, but I have convinced myself that the ammonia altered the surface chemistry of the wood because I have never experienced such an even color with any other projects that I have stained. By "even" I mean that while there was some board to board variation in color, there was very little variation within each board (no blotching). Again, it may be just my imagination getting in the way of realty, but I believe fuming had a positive effect on the woods receptiveness to the stain.
    DRW

  22. #14
    Senior User
    Nickname
    Jeff
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Rougemont, NC
    Posts
    7,596
    Visit Freq
    6.88 visits/week
    Threads
    650
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    A saturated solution of ammonia gas dissolved in water is ammonium hydroxide and it is 28% ammonia. The 50% ammonia is 50% volume/volume and it's about the same thing. So 28% vs 50% is confusing.








    Quote Originally Posted by scsmith42 View Post
    Iíve done a lot of fuming with 50% laboratory grade ammonia. It is FAST. Typically I can achieve a very dark brown color in 3-4 hours.

    Red oak tends to turn green when fumed with ammonia (in my experience).

    You have to be careful with the 50%; most likely 28% is a better choice for fuming because you have more time to reach the ideal shade.

  23. The following 4 users say Thank You to Jeff :


  24. #15
    Board of Directors
    Treasurer
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    KenOfCary's Avatar
    Nickname
    Ken
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Floyd, VA
    Posts
    7,885
    Visit Freq
    6.81 visits/week
    Threads
    527
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Fuming ...

    Quote Originally Posted by zdorsch View Post
    Ken,

    Did you use the Wood magazine plans for the couch? Or another set of plans? I’m leaning toward building my next living room furniture set.

    Thanks,

    Zach
    I used a combination of two plans that I bought to build the settle. I think one of them was from Fine Woodworking and I don't remember where the other came from. I considered doing the upholstery myself but was very happy with using a professional to to that aspect of the project.
    I don't believe in Astrology. I'm a Sagittarius and we're skeptical.

    "May the grain be with you" - Roy Underhill

  25. The following user says Thank You to KenOfCary for this useful post:


Similar Threads

  1. Ammonia Fuming White Oak
    By DTBoss in forum Finishing
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-27-2018, 03:35 PM
  2. Ammonia fuming as a bug killer?
    By Chris C in forum Wood
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-17-2016, 11:39 PM
  3. Unexpected amonia fuming results -feedback requested
    By scsmith42 in forum General Woodworking
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 09-30-2009, 04:29 AM
  4. Looking for advice about amonia fuming
    By scsmith42 in forum General Woodworking
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 09-25-2009, 08:01 AM
  5. Where can I get some ammonia for fuming
    By Jim Hancock in forum Where Can I Find, Buy or Sell
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-28-2007, 08:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •