Klingspor's Woodworking Shop (Locations) Ad #1

Special Events in the next 30 days

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 25
  1. #1
    Senior User
    DQ
    danmart77's Avatar
    Nickname
    Dan (66)
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    1,656
    Visit Freq
    7.00 visits/week
    Threads
    299
    Classifieds
    0

    Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    Recently I've seen requests for a dovetail class and a turning class and I wondered? What is a fair price for someone to get instruction.

    Phil S proposed a dovetail class this spring and it prompted me to ask the same question. What is a fair price for good instruction.

    Looking around the site I found an address for a course offered on 4 separate nights for 2 hours each time. So 8 hours of instruction for 175 would work out to close to 20/hour. This seems well suited for a person who's weekends are booked and work is in the balance.

    Another "class" instruction offering on building a dovetailed Moravian Candle box with Ray Pine was 320 for 2 full days at a site in Virginia. So I figure 16 hours and it works out to 20/hour again.


    One I did here in Durham with students.



    Is 20/hour too much? Maybe for a group environment but I see plenty of "schools" with multiple benches using that rate and a little higher.

    I guess I don't see 20/hour as too much for dedicated instruction with examples at hand, stock for the student to use without having to go here and there and find it, (most of the time the stock is dimensioned before hand) and tools should the student have none.

    I'm curious what members of the forum think about instruction and cost. Is it the prevailing view here on the site that instruction should be free? Small donation to the NCWW forum and instruction free? Hourly rate?

    I think the real steal is finding instructors in the area that you don't have to pay for a hotel and meals for a few days or a week. You save a ton.


    Any and all comments welcome on instruction and cost. Maybe with some feel for what an instructor can ask might lead to more offerings?

  2. The following 3 users say Thank You to danmart77 :


  3. #2
    User
    Nickname
    neil
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Weaverville, NC
    Posts
    51
    Visit Freq
    0.35 visits/week
    Threads
    5
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    Hi, Scott Meek (makes Krenov style handplanes) came and taught a class when I was in school at Haywood Comm. College. He was there about 5 hours and the fee was $350.00
    Neil

  4. #3
    Senior User
    DQ

    Nickname
    Roy
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Apex, NC
    Posts
    912
    Visit Freq
    6.85 visits/week
    Threads
    53
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    I would think your $20 per hour of instruction is reasonable if you have several students. One on one instruction should come at a higher rate. You could maybe add a few bucks for the materials.

    Roy G

  5. #4
    Senior User
    DQ

    Nickname
    David (74)
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    165
    Visit Freq
    6.92 visits/week
    Threads
    38
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    I personally think $20 per hour for instruction is a great price. I agree that it would be only worthwhile if 4-6 students could be trained at the same time as the hourly rate needs to end up being somewhere in the $80 to $120 per hour. I have paid $40 per hour for training for saw sharpening and carving classes.

    David Turner

  6. #5
    Board of Directors
    Development Director
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    Jeremy Scuteri's Avatar
    Nickname
    Jeremy (37)
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Oak Ridge, NC
    Posts
    3,756
    Visit Freq
    6.31 visits/week
    Threads
    309
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    It seems like offered classes tend to fill up pretty quickly. I know that I enjoy them very much. Many classes have been offered for a $5 nominal fee, and they were very popular. Then classes got a little more expensive with donations to help support NCWW being thrown in and I don't think interest went down at all.

  7. #6
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    FredP's Avatar
    Nickname
    Fred (61)
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    franklinton, nc
    Posts
    5,671
    Visit Freq
    7.00 visits/week
    Threads
    208
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    I think this site was created for woodworkers to share ideas and knowledge. charging for that knowledge seems contrary to this. paying for materials , tools ect. is one thing but charging fellow members for instruction and such kinda goes against our non profit status IMHO. Maybe our founder will step in and set us strait? Steve?
    fred p If it ain't broke you aint trying hard enough

  8. The following 2 users say Thank You to FredP :


  9. #7
    Board of Directors
    President
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    Mike Davis's Avatar
    Nickname
    Mike
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Walnut Cove, NC
    Posts
    12,533
    Visit Freq
    7.00 visits/week
    Threads
    734
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    I started the free classes because I saw a need for beginners that was not being served. I can afford to teach free because I earn a good living doing design work. I also felt the need to give back, then I suggested the donation to help support NCWW.

    At some point people need more advanced instruction and I think that is where Dan and some others here fit in. His price is still much less that most of the schools and you get good solid experienced information and instruction.



    One machine can do the work of 50 ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard

    WWFD

  10. The following 7 users say Thank You to Mike Davis :


  11. #8
    Board of Directors
    President
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    Mike Davis's Avatar
    Nickname
    Mike
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Walnut Cove, NC
    Posts
    12,533
    Visit Freq
    7.00 visits/week
    Threads
    734
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredP View Post
    I think this site was created for woodworkers to share ideas and knowledge. charging for that knowledge seems contrary to this. paying for materials , tools ect. is one thing but charging fellow members for instruction and such kinda goes against our non profit status IMHO. Maybe our founder will step in and set us strait? Steve?

    Actually, this would be a decision for the current Board of Directors and we have already discussed it at length last year. At that time we decided to allow and even encourage more instructors to offer classes at their chosen rate. We also ask them to include a donation to NCWW to help fund the site and reduce the need for frequent fund drives. Has anybody noticed that is working?


    So, this is a win for everybody, you get great classes at lower cost, NCWW gets donations without the big fund drives that most people didn’t like, people who choose not to participate in either are less challenged to do so, and I still get to teach for free.

    If you want a free class just ask for it and we will try to put something together for you.

    If you want to teach a class for a fee, put it out there and if the cost is too high I’m sure someone will let you know.

    As long as classes are filling up the price is not too high.



    One machine can do the work of 50 ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard

    WWFD

  12. The following 8 users say Thank You to Mike Davis :


  13. #9
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    FredP's Avatar
    Nickname
    Fred (61)
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    franklinton, nc
    Posts
    5,671
    Visit Freq
    7.00 visits/week
    Threads
    208
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
    Actually, this would be a decision for the current Board of Directors and we have already discussed it at length last year. At that time we decided to allow and even encourage more instructors to offer classes at their chosen rate. We also ask them to include a donation to NCWW to help fund the site and reduce the need for frequent fund drives. Has anybody noticed that is working?


    So, this is a win for everybody, you get great classes at lower cost, NCWW gets donations without the big fund drives that most people didn’t like, people who choose not to participate in either are less challenged to do so, and I still get to teach for free.

    If you want a free class just ask for it and we will try to put something together for you.

    If you want to teach a class for a fee, put it out there and if the cost is too high I’m sure someone will let you know.

    As long as classes are filling up the price is not too high.
    fair enough, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I've never have nor will I ever charge a fellow club member for instruction. The free exchange of knowledge among us is what makes this site unique compared to other sites.
    fred p If it ain't broke you aint trying hard enough

  14. The following 6 users say Thank You to FredP :


  15. #10
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    Phil S's Avatar
    Nickname
    Phil Soper (68)
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    4,532
    Visit Freq
    9.35 visits/week
    Threads
    532
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    A few thoughts to consider:

    For one on one instruction, I would expect to pay at least $30 to $40 per hour

    For group instruction, I would not pay that much. The few cases that I have taken for $100 or more were, in retrospect, not a good value as I would have learned more with a couple of hours of one on one instruction.

    A little history, I have hosted 18 classes at my shop - 7 with guest/co-instructor and 14 with just me. When I was able to get a guest instructor for some of the advanced classes, I collected funds from the students to cover the guest instructors expenses, but that was always too low knowing the prep time required.

    My other 11 classes I have never asked for any compensation as I was never sure I had the skill set to professionally teach - hopefully I am getting better.

    While I love to teach these classes. Whenever I spend a day in the shop to teach a class, I must pay a nurse care for my wife and I just am not willing to continue to pay that.

    So the bottom line is:

    Students must cover my Saturday nursing fee of $140

    plus

    Whatever the Board of Directors wants/needs per student per class

    plus

    Guest instructor fees, if any. (I will not cheap out here).


    I will continue to provide some thrown together grub for lunch.


    Hope this helps

  16. The following 10 users say Thank You to Phil S :


  17. #11
    Board of Directors
    President
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    Mike Davis's Avatar
    Nickname
    Mike
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Walnut Cove, NC
    Posts
    12,533
    Visit Freq
    7.00 visits/week
    Threads
    734
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredP View Post
    fair enough, but just because you can doesn't mean you should. I've never have nor will I ever charge a fellow club member for instruction. The free exchange of knowledge among us is what makes this site unique compared to other sites.

    Not it sure what part of this was not clear...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Davis View Post
    If you want a free class just ask for it and we will try to put something together for you.

    If you want to teach a class for a fee, put it out there and if the cost is too high I’m sure someone will let you know.
    So, I will say again. We teach free classes, and some people charge for advanced classes.

    I teach free classes.

    Any one here is free to teach a class any time they like. Post it in the ”Classes, Training, and Workshop Education “ forum.



    One machine can do the work of 50 ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -Elbert Hubbard

    WWFD

  18. #12
    User cyclopentadiene's Avatar
    Nickname
    Update your profile with your name
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    692
    Visit Freq
    4.31 visits/week
    Threads
    124
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    I agree with Phil for one on one instruction. Perhaps $50-75 based on your skill level and the topic.

    You are a craftsman and I am sure you make much more per hour for your time when building chairs. The $20/ hour undervalues your talents. A class at the woodwright school, woodcraft, klingspor, highland and the many others available are priced much higher. A one day class is often $100 -$250 per person with the total income of $1000 or more per day. If these are held at a school, I assume the school received $50-75% to cover their overhead thereby allowing $250-500 for the instructor. If you are teaching at your shop, there is overhead in wear and tear on tools, as well as miscellaneous supplies.
    you also need to consider your preparation time before class and cleanup after.

    it is a different area but I have lectured several chemistry classes for local universities and my in class fee has been $100-200 per student contact hour depending upon the course. These were over 10 years ago so the rate may have increased as college tuition has increased 10-15% per year.

    i see no difference in your expertise as a craftsman. It is actually more rare and you are an excellent teacher.

  19. #13
    Corporate Member
    DQ

    Nickname
    Jim (71)
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Posts
    1,500
    Visit Freq
    7.00 visits/week
    Threads
    85
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    For me it boils down to whether a class is offered by a brick and mortar for profit school or more of an informal seminar in someone's home shop. I'd expect to pay more in the first instance than the second just because of the economic realities of running a business. Then there's the question of who the teacher is, how long is the class, and would I consider it a topic beyond simple beginner introductory material. There has been a good variety of both kinds of classes offered here and I've certainly gotten useful information from all I've attended. For one on one master classes I'd expect to pay a fair fee regardless of the setting. For a half day intro seminar on a basic skill you could learn off You Tube or a good book, probably not.

    Dan, if what you are thinking about offering is building one of your Windsor chairs beginning to end with the end result being a finished chair, I'd consider that a master class for advanced woodworkers who already know how to do lathe spindle work and worth more than $20 per hour. Seems like much more involved than a one day class, too.

  20. #14
    User Richo B's Avatar
    Nickname
    Richo
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    New Bern, NC
    Posts
    429
    Visit Freq
    1.85 visits/week
    Threads
    89
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    Dan, me being a newbie to woodworking I think $20 an hour is a fair price depending on what is being offered and the instructor. I've seen classes offered for $350 and immediately decide against them because I'm looking at who the instructor is and the total price. Most of the classes both free and paid on this forum I would not attend due to distance. I live in New Bern and its not practical to drive to these locations because of other responsibilities. I do have some resources out here like Shop Class (private company with classes and shop equipment) plus a volunteer in my lab with the knowledge and experience of Dan and Mike Davis combined. So I've learned a lot from him as he does gun making, blacksmith in addition to Woodworking. I would pay someone good money for quality instruction if I felt they were doing it to pass on good techiques and experience and not just to make money. If that makes sense.

  21. The following 2 users say Thank You to Richo B :


  22. #15
    Board of Directors
    Events Director
    Corporate Member
    DQ
    Berta's Avatar
    Nickname
    Roberta
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Cameron, NC
    Posts
    3,141
    Visit Freq
    6.58 visits/week
    Threads
    290
    Classifieds
    0

    Re: Classes and Cost: what's fair?

    Dan,
    If you want to offer a class,do it. You will find out if it is a feasible thing for you. You need to try to know the answer.
    Just let everyone know why you are a professional. I think people would jump at the chance for a class from you.
    Berta

Similar Threads

  1. Classes, free classes, donation to NCWW classes
    By Mike Davis in forum Staff Announcements
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-30-2016, 12:40 PM
  2. Why does 8/4 cost more than 4/4?
    By Matt Furjanic in forum Wood
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-22-2016, 08:04 AM
  3. Fair Warning...
    By scsmith42 in forum Power Tools and Their Use
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 01-14-2009, 10:44 PM
  4. Fair Warning!
    By tom hintz in forum General Woodworking
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-14-2008, 09:50 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •