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  1. #31
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Dan, thanks for the suggestions. I am planning to use the thumbnail profile lip. Also on the lopers. Buried deep in the Lynch text is a tip not to lip the top drawer for the reason you cite. Since you fit your boxes first I assume you laminate the face wood onto the drawers. That seems like a good way to go especially if you have some good figured wood. Do you put an overhanging lip on the bottom edge? Seems like it would be fragile if someone removed the drawers and set them down carelessly. I've seen many drawers that had the profile on the bottom but not the overhang.
    Again thanks. Your tips are always the useful

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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    That seems like a good way to go especially if you have some good figured wood.

    It is a great way to build up laminated faces. I also make the faces larger than final when working a solid face. Its no extra work and it gives you the wiggle room to get drawers in near perfect alignment.


    Do you put an overhanging lip on the bottom edge?

    Yes most of the time. The trick to good drawer longevity with top and bottom lips is to make the dividers very slightly concave. This is a trick I picked up a long time ago while viewing some 200 year old drawers. The drawer stops when the end grain over hang of the face(ends) contacts the side pieces of the case. No contact at all on the top and bottom extended lip of the drawer face. This does not protect the drawer from stupidity. If a person takes a drawer out and drops it on the floor.... its like Forrest Gump's mother said about stupidity.


    Seems like it would be fragile if someone removed the drawers and set them down carelessly.

    True. People put expensive antique furniture in open pickup trucks. Again, I'm thinkin' of Gump's mother.


    I've seen many drawers that had the profile on the bottom but not the overhang.
    Just depends really. In the photo below you see moulding applied to a bottom case board. The board is 7/8 and the moulding is the same. You would not have a lip.



    The case below had extended lips on all of the drawers. As you can see on the top and bottom of all the drawers there is an overhanging lip. The bottom divider is wider than the moulding so there is room for the extra on the face. In this case I was trying to get some crotch walnut to work with mirror matched sections. I could only get a board 16" long that was 8/4.

    If you note here, the stiles hide the hidden drawers on the both sides of each drawer.










    drawer with finger hole






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  4. #33
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    "Yes most of the time. The trick to good drawer longevity with top and bottom lips is to make the dividers very slightly concave. This is a trick I picked up a long time ago while viewing some 200 year old drawers. The drawer stops when the end grain over hang of the face(ends) contacts the side pieces of the case. No contact at all on the top and bottom extended lip of the drawer face.

    Dan,
    That's a great idea. I'll use that. The end grain is much sturdier than the long grain top and bottom.

    I am in the situation you show with the 7/8 molding applied to a 7/8 case bottom so I can't have bottom lip on the lowest drawer.

  5. #34
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Just so I can follow the conversation more accurately, are you all talking about the profile extending beyond the drawer box itself and resting against the face frame itself, acting as a drawer stop almost [or completely]?

    As opposed to inernal drawer stops and a drawer front profile landing flush in the face frame of the desk/dresser?

  6. #35
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Quote Originally Posted by DannysBoy View Post
    Just so I can follow the conversation more accurately, are you all talking about the profile extending beyond the drawer box itself and resting against the face frame itself, acting as a drawer stop almost [or completely]?

    As opposed to internal drawer stops and a drawer front profile landing flush in the face frame of the desk/dresser?


    Yes we are talking about the thumbnail edge that goes around the drawer front. This drawer front is usually made so that it extends beyond the width of the opening of the drawer. Some builders extend the lip or overhang on the top of the drawer and some extend the overhang on the top and bottom.

    For the top drawer on a fall front desk like the one built in Old Salem, the drawer has no overhang on the top of the drawer to allow the lid to open and sit flat.

    Like I mentioned above, I make sure the overhang on the top and bottom of the drawer face do not contact the dividers before the sides.

    These drawers do not use internal stops.


    Here is a drawer with a thumbnail edge all the way around. This example has an overhang on the top and sides but not the bottom


    This drawer is a "cockbeaded" drawer. It has no lip on any of the edges. This drawer requires an internal stop of some sort








    Hopefully these photos will make the point a little less confusing. Making well fitting drawers is a lost art. With the advent of metal glides, plywood sides and faces, and other time saving means the demand for well built drawers has become less important and the skill demand has gone down.

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  8. #36
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Thanks for the photos, Dan. This last series helps clear up what everyone was talking about.
    I like making things. I have a wood shop at home. I am a terrible carpenter but I love doing it. Raymond - Charlotte, NC

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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    [QUOTE=danmart77;572202]Charlie
    From our discussion at your house yesterday, we touched on the Krause desk built with cherry and cherry veneer. Its a stunning desk and bookcase but unfortunately for us home owners living with 8' ceilings, this piece would not work.

    I do love the upper bookcase with its bonnet curve. You feature a four drawer stair-step gallery with a prospect box and pilaster cases in a photo in reply #3. I think this photo is taken from the cherry desk shown here below.

    This piece was on display for years in the Single Brothers House. Not sure where it is these days but it is worth seeing. I called ahead and asked if the doors and the lid could be opened by one of the curators and they were very obliging with my request and invited me to come back on a quiet time if I wanted to measure the piece. Unfortunately, time and availability did not work out. Wish I had the measurements for this one.




    Hey Charlie here are some pieces of walnut I cut to make the desk/bookcase in walnut. The commission fell thru but I still have 13 pieces of thick walnut veneer on hand. I could use it on several things but I really wanted to make this one for a historic home owner in New Bern. It was a great fit as his home had 10' plus ceilings and this looked small in his big house.








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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    I had originally planned to depart from the original Krause piece in the details of the gallery arrangement. My wife wanted letter slots so I worked out a design that looked right to me in fitting with the other shapes in the original desk. Here's what I came up with.


    Still have to cut out the 1/8 thick dividers for the letter slots.

    There will be 6 vertical letter slots. The 1/8 inch slots for the dividers are cut.

    Time to start on the drawers.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  12. #39
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Charlie the design fits right in with the style of the plan. I like the concave bottom shelf and the matching desk board. It looks nice.

    I can't tell if the fronts of the dividers are rounded like the vertical dividers? I think this would make it look somewhat uniform. When the dados came all the way thru in the 18th century, the reveal end was usually a "V" groove.

    I like the additional pigeon holes you have more than the 2 shelf set up I have. And brother I fill it up with ... stuff.

    Post a few more photos as you make progress. Looks nice.





    I built my drawers like an Englishman(small pins and sliding bottom panel). The German joinery on the original drawers was just a little to bulky for my taste. Just me.





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  14. #40
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Thanks, Dan
    The dividers will definitely be rounded to match. This is a dry assembly to check fit. The 1/8 verticals will have an ogee front profile as the top is set back from the bottom. They will be rounded too. Had to butt join 1/8 in stock to get the depth and let the glue set overnight before shaping. So that needs to be done today. Would probably have done the v grooves if I had researched a little more.
    Going to take your advice on the big drawers and do boxes first.

    Here's an updated photo with the letter slot dividers and the fronts rounded over.
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    Last edited by Charlie Buchanan; 05-28-2017 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Add photo

  15. #41
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Haven't posted to this thread in a while but some progress along the way.

    Finally got all those drawer pockets filled. Here is the back view. Will use random width shiplap poplar for the back.

    For the large drawers I took Danmart's suggestion and built the drawer boxes flush and then added on the 1/4" lipped moulded fronts. Also decided to use slips and divided bottom to save weight by using thinner sides and bottom panels.


    Here's the bottom of the bottom drawer showing the split bottom. The dark mark on the far corner is a spalt mark in the poplar.


    Here's the front with all drawers installed and stopped. The bracket feet and frame are not really attached yet. I just wanted to show the final look. The stick of base moulding is just set there to see if fits/looks OK. It's just a cove and fillet. Going to finish this part and move it out of the shop to have room to build the bookcase that sits atop the desk.
    Next is the fallboard. Found a piece of 14" wide cherry for the fallboard. Its a nice piece but I'll need to joint and thickness by hand.
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    Last edited by Charlie Buchanan; 07-24-2017 at 04:46 PM. Reason: addition

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  17. #42
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Have you experienced much tear out with you were cutting your doves using poplar? I always seem to get that headache. Did you end up doing half blinds or through dove's with a drawer front that appears so? I can't remember what you went with at this point

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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Quote Originally Posted by DannysBoy View Post
    Have you experienced much tear out with you were cutting your doves using poplar? I always seem to get that headache. Did you end up doing half blinds or through dove's with a drawer front that appears so? I can't remember what you went with at this point
    Connor,
    I have had a problem with chippy poplar in the past, but not so much lately. I think it depends on the way the wood has been dried. This batch of poplar gave no problems, it chopped out cleanly. I made through dovetails on the drawers fitted them as I would flush drawers and then glued on the face.

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  20. #44
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Getting around to the fall board. Roughed out the tenons with a palm router and fitted them with a hand router plane and chisels.


    Mitered breadboard ends. And eventually a moulded edge to match the drawers.

    Plannng to glue the mitered end tenon and pin them both leaving some expansion/contraction room on the hinge side pin and tenon. It's bound to move with the almost 14 inch width of the fallboard. Probably mostly contraction from this time of year. Have seen a few cracked ones around.
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  22. #45
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    Re: Starting desk/bookcase project

    Charlie, a mitered breadboard end cap is sure an interesting touch. I've never seen one or thought of it. Neat!

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