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Thread: Workshop wiring

  1. #31
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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveD View Post
    Keep in mind that you can't run 'romex' in conduit. The only exception is if you are stubbing down from the ceiling for an exposed outlet. Then you can put that last 6 or so feet of the Romex in conduit to protect it.

    I'm really curious about this. Do you know where this is outlined in the National Electric Code? I first heard from my father that you are not allowed to run Romex in conduit. Being the skeptical SOB that I am, I didn't take his word for it and tried to look into it. Tons of people online saying contradicting things as usual. I couldn't find anything in the NEC myself, but I am certainly no expert.

    The last thing I did was ask a Greensboro Electrical Inspector about it. He said that there was no problem with running Romex inside conduit as long as I left it in it's jacket because the wires inside the Romex jacket aren't sufficiently labeled, so he wouldn't be able to identify them. (Many internet threads said you needed to take the wires out of the jacket to prevent excessive heat, just the opposite of what the inspector said...go figure) I wouldn't be surprised if I got a different answer talking to a different inspector.

    Sometimes it is hard to tell which way is up. I'd love to check out some specific code references on the topic if you have them.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Its not in the code book. You just can't run it in wet and damp locations.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Scuteri View Post
    Sometimes it is hard to tell which way is up. I'd love to check out some specific code references on the topic if you have them.
    Indeed.
    Trying to interpret the NEC and getting a straight answer is just slightly easier than learning quantum string theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lowlander View Post
    You just can't run it in wet and damp locations.
    Why not?

    I do find it ludicrous that 120V outlets in a garage must be GFCI due to it being a 'damp' location, yet 240V circuits do not.

    Based on a lot of stuff I've read doing my research, a lot of professionals think the whole thing is a money making business just for the sake of it.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    300.9 Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade. Where
    raceways are installed in wet locations abovegrade, the interior
    of these raceways shall be considered to be a wet
    location. Insulated conductors and cables installed in raceways
    in wet locations abovegrade shall comply with
    310.8(C)

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    I'm saying that you can run romex in conduit. Circuits on GFI are installed in garage because they are usually tied to the outside boxes. Also may have to do with water heaters in the same space.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Brogan View Post
    I do find it ludicrous that 120V outlets in a garage must be GFCI due to it being a 'damp' location, yet 240V circuits do not.
    When I had my workshop inspected, the inspector explained that the GFCI requirement in a garage wasn't necessarily because it can be a damp location, it was because of the tendency people had to run extension cords outside from the garage outlets where they can get get rained on. Probably not too many cases of needing to run a 240V tool outside on an extension cord.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Brogan View Post
    I do find it ludicrous that 120V outlets in a garage must be GFCI due to it being a 'damp' location, yet 240V circuits do not.

    I agree, a complete breakdown of logic from my perspective. When I put outlets in my unfinished basement shop several months ago, the 120v outlets had to be GFCI protected but the 240v outlets did not (240v GFCI receptacles aren't readily available either, I only know of a "Spa Panel" for hot tubs). Same story for "Tamper Resistant" receptacles (I had to replace a bunch of 120v receptacles that I put in that were not tamper resistant), that rule only applies to the 120v outlets, not the 240v ones.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by LB75 View Post
    When I had my workshop inspected, the inspector explained that the GFCI requirement in a garage wasn't necessarily because it can be a damp location, it was because of the tendency people had to run extension cords outside from the garage outlets where they can get get rained on. Probably not too many cases of needing to run a 240V tool outside on an extension cord.

    Huh, that actually seems reasonable to me.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy Scuteri View Post
    Huh, that actually seems reasonable to me.
    Yep, and that reasoning saved me from having to install GFCI outlets inside my shop. I had 2 GFCI outlets on the outside of the building that satisfied the requirement.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    That explanation just doesn't wash with me - it seems like a rule which was invented because of something which happened one time, perhaps.

    People could do the same with standard outlets inside the house, running the cable out of a window or door.

    Not to mention most (all?) new builds these days have dedicated external GFCI outlets.

    The whole code/permit issue is crazy here.
    I have to apply for a permit to install light fixtures and fans in existing ceiling junction boxes.
    Yet I can knock up a home made extension cord or splitter, or rewire a plug on a device without a permit.

    Rant over

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Have builder set a 100 amp, 20 circuit surface mounted panel, with ONE receptical. This will satisfy the building inspector. Then after closing on house, go pull a permit and wire you own. I'm a fan of multiwire branch circuits. They allow you to have two 120 and one 240 circuits from one duplex (240) breaker. Run everything in EMT, and use it as ground conductor. Hit 240 recpt first, then two 120 GFCI recpts below.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    If you think the code/permit thing is crazy here, you should try other states. When I lived in Virginia and wanted to install 3 outlets in my attached garage, the permit cost $40 PER outlet.

    When I built my 24' x 40' shop here in Concord, the permit cost me $35 and that allowed me to wire the entire building with 15 separate circuits to a 200A breaker panel AND the connection to the meter base. Plus the inspector called the power company after I passed final and arranged for them to pull the new service line in from the street.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Actually I would not put all the circuits in side the wall.

    I've found running surface mounted conduit or flex cable is 1) easier 2) give flexibility to add/remove/alter circuits, 3) more expensive but worth it.

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    One thing I haven't been able to determine is what the code is with regards to dropping wires down between studs behind drywall.

    The garage has an 'attic' so it is possible to get up there and run new wiring in the cavity but code states that wires should be stapled to the center of the stud, which obviously isn't possible if just dropping wires down from the attic.

    I presume just having the wires loose in the cavity between the studs would not be code compliant?

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    Re: Workshop wiring

    Quote Originally Posted by Brogan View Post
    One thing I haven't been able to determine is what the code is with regards to dropping wires down between studs behind drywall.

    The garage has an 'attic' so it is possible to get up there and run new wiring in the cavity but code states that wires should be stapled to the center of the stud, which obviously isn't possible if just dropping wires down from the attic.

    I presume just having the wires loose in the cavity between the studs would not be code compliant?
    New construction and exposed- secure the line in the cavity. Retrofit can run freely in the cavity and does not need to be secured. The wire just needs to be secured at the junction box entry/exit.

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