Wood Glue

[Acelectric]

Other than price, is there any reason to use anything other than Titebond III for all wood joints? I know there are times when you need other types of glue but when you just need a pva glue is there a time when you would prefer Titebond Original or Titebond II instead?

I have been using Titebond III exclusively but was wondering if I should use something else for certain applications. I look forward to hearing from the seasoned woodworkers around here.

 

[Mike Davis]

That's all I use now, buy I notice sometimes it drys dark.. TBI OR TBII may be better on light colored wood.

i like the water resistance though so I probably won't switch.

 

[Weekendworrior]

Love the TBIII but use TBII more often on most indoor applications where moisture and water resistance isn't a concern. In home construction type projects I use TB No Drip. It's thick, dries quickly and clear.

 

[jcz]

If it ain't broke don't fix it. I use TBIII.

 

[Berta]

Love the TBIII but use TBII more often on most indoor applications where moisture and water resistance isn't a concern. In home construction type projects I use TB No Drip. It's thick, dries quickly and clear.

+1

 

[CarvedTones]

Love the TBIII but use TBII more often on most indoor applications where moisture and water resistance isn't a concern.

Do you have your numbers right? TBII, which is my favorite, is water resistant:

Titebond II Premium Wood Glue is the only leading brand, one-part wood glue that passes the ANSI Type II water-resistance specification. It is ideal for exterior woodworking projects, including outdoor furniture, birdhouses, mailboxes, planters and picnic tables.

source

TBIII takes it further and claims to be waterproof. I find it tends to be a little more visible and it used to be a bit more expensive; prices are closer these days. Mostly I am just happy with II and if I need complete waterproofing I usually go with epoxy.

 

[Mike Camp]

I use TB2 more often because of the faster dry/set time and most of my glue-ups are not very complex.

 

[Joe Scharle]

Since glue has a limited shelf life, I buy in small sizes and more often. I haven't saved a penny if I use old glue and the joint fails due to old glue. So I pick one and learn all it's tricks!

 

[tarheelz]

I use TB4.

 

[Tarhead]

Just about any glue on a store shelf will create a joint stronger than the surrounding wood as long as it's gluing a good joint (ie no gaps) and attention is paid to the surface prep, temperature, time for curing and kept dry most of the time. You can make a pretty good glue with unflavored gelatin if you're MacGyver'ing .

If you are assembling a project that will have constant stress on it (like a rocking chair rocker, bow or bent wood project) glues that dry hard like Weldbond ( http://www.dap.com/product_details.aspx?product_id=42 ),
Hide Glue and Fish Glue will perform better than any of the Titebonds. Titebond 1 drys the hardest vs the other Titebond versions. Luthiers use it for critical joints for this property and claiming it makes a difference in the quality of the sound vs the other Titebond versions and some other glues. Tim McKnight (an Ohio Luthier) did an interesting study on this subject: http://www.mcknightguitars.com/glue-hardness.html (If you're a glue geek check out the second part of his study: http://www.mcknightguitars.com/glue-vib.html ) It's also easily reversed with mild heat and/or steam.

The big weakness with the Titebond type glues is that they will not bond to themselves. So surface prep is important if you need to re-glue a joint. Any of the hide and fish glues just need a little new glue to re-activate.

I like the Titebond Extend glue http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=d7c6f86b-93cc-4400-99ed-79f8a75a2e95 which is Titebond 1 with a secret ingredient. It's open time is 15 mins and assembly time is 20-25 mins and Fish glue ( http://www.norlandprod.com/fishgel/hightack.html ) which has a 1.5 to 2 hour open time.

 

[ehpoole]

I'll add to the chorus that there is nothing, structurally at least, wrong with standardizing on TBIII if that's what you prefer.

I don't build a lot of exterior stuff, so I standardize on TBII (which I buy in gallon size), but I still keep a small bottle of TBIII on hand for those occasions where I need either the additional water resistance that TBIII adds above and beyond TBII, or where I want the darker glue line (such as when bonding darker woods).

But, then, glue choice is a very personal choice and most every woodworker has their own preference. As long as your projects don't fall apart in short order then stick with what works for you.

I also find that so long as you do not allow your TB glue to freeze in the winter (my shop ranges from about 45F in winter to about 90F in the summer) it is very much usable well beyond the 1 year recommended date. I've used 3-4 year old TBII glue on projects that shows no signs of deterioration relative to new and produces joints that are still much stronger than the surrounding wood -- whether the glue itself is as strong as new is difficult to say, but if the joint is stronger than the surrounding wood then that's about all a woodworker can ask for. Of course, if you can detect any noticeable changes in the glue's consistency then it is well past its prime and should be promptly discarded. Even so, if I were building a piece that I intended to be an heirloom then I would likely opt for fresh glue just to play it safe.

 

[Acelectric]

Thanks for all the replies. Some really good info there. I'm going to stick with using TBIII for now.

 

[Weekendworrior]

Do you have your numbers right? TBII, which is my favorite, is water resistant:

Yes sir, I have my numbers right. Water "resistant" is like flame "retardant". Under the right conditions the flame retardant object will still burn. Under the right conditions water "resistant" objects will absorb the moisture and fail.

I'm fully aware of ANSI classifications and testing methods. Some elements their testing methods leaves out is how "time" and constant "cycles" take their toll on the adhesive and the wood itself. Will TBII live up to it's claims and test for one full 12 month calendar year? Test it and see. Toss something together with TBII but use no fasteners of any kind. Park it in the yard and get back to me on that water "resistance".

 

[Gofor]

That's all I use now, buy I notice sometimes it drys dark.. TBI OR TBII may be better on light colored wood.

i like the water resistance though so I probably won't switch.

Ditto here. I use TBII on pine and light colored woods. The III seems to match better on walnut and some oak. Not sure, but I think the II has a little bit better shelf life in my garage, so I don't buy a large jug of the III anymore. (Wasted about a 1/3 of the first one. Guess price-wise it worked out about the same though, as its cheaper per volume in the bigger containers).

Go

 

[CarvedTones]

Yes sir, I have my numbers right. Water "resistant" is like flame "retardant". Under the right conditions the flame retardant object will still burn. Under the right conditions water "resistant" objects will absorb the moisture and fail.

I'm fully aware of ANSI classifications and testing methods. Some elements their testing methods leaves out is how "time" and constant "cycles" take their toll on the adhesive and the wood itself. Will TBII live up to it's claims and test for one full 12 month calendar year? Test it and see. Toss something together with TBII but use no fasteners of any kind. Park it in the yard and get back to me on that water "resistance".

I have used TBII on several outdoor projects without issue. It is not for fully immersed use, but it handles wet weather fine.

 

[MrAudio815]

Thanks for all the replies. Some really good info there. I'm going to stick with using TBIII for now.

Well if you ever get into segmented turning, like Malcolm Tibbetts, I use TB1 for that. Other projects where water may be present I use TB3.

 

[Willemjm]

I only use Titebond Original. On rare exceptions, I use III where I need more open time due to assembly taking longer. I don't like the way III dries and cleanup is more difficult after dry. I find the application of III more difficult as well. Never tried II.

 

[Weekendworrior]

I have used TBII on several outdoor projects without issue. It is not for fully immersed use, but it handles wet weather fine.

Yes sir, didn't mean to sound argumentative. I too have a few outdoor projects standing with TBII but I'm only a few months in on these. I made the switch to Titebond products over Elmer's through home testing methods.......not claims, advertising, or word of mouth. Use what works and you're comfortable using I always say. Rock on sir.

 

[Weekendworrior]

I only use Titebond Original. On rare exceptions, I use III where I need more open time due to assembly taking longer. I don't like the way III dries and cleanup is more difficult after dry. I find the application of III more difficult as well. Never tried II.

In all sincerity, why do you wait till after it's dry to do glue clean up?

 

[Willemjm]

In all sincerity, why do you wait till after it's dry to do glue clean up?

Sometimes I cannot get to all the squeeze out until the clamps are off. Sometimes I forget to clean my glue brush soon enough.

It would be interesting finding out from the segmented turners what they use?

I tried III once on a segmented platter, as I needed more open time and for the first time a few segments came loose on the end of the turning.

Data on III shows a stronger joint, but in this case the application was more difficult and I don't think I got the same penetration into the cells as I would have with Original.