What have I done to my cordless drill/driver???

[DaveO]

I got a Milwaukee 18v Lithium-Ion D/D (model # 2601-28) a few years ago as a present. My FIL gave it to me because he has one and has been very happy with it. I was too in the begining, good weight to power ratio and good battery life. Fast forward a couple years..it now sucks. The drill is great, but the batteries suck. I generally run the tool until the battery quits. Pop it on the charger and it goes to fully charged in just a few minutes. Fully charged doesn't last but for a few screws.
My research on Li-ion batteries has told me that they have no memory effect (charging a partial full battery will lead to it only taking a half charge) and that they have very little self-discharge (meaning good shelf life between using the tool). Well I have found neither to be true. Every time I go to use the tool, the battery is almost dead. When I put it on the charger, it comes up to "full charge" very quickly, but doesn't really get a full charge.
Do I just have a crappy batch of batteries? Or am I doing something wrong with their handling? This is so frustrating as it is outside work project season, and I have been resorting to pulling out the big corded Hitachi hammer drill to drive screws. Not exactly the best weight ratio, but my arms are getting buff.

Dave

 

[wayne]

Dave

I remember reading onetime that the worst thing you could do was charge a hot battery.
If you run the battery down it needs to cool off before charging.

Wayne

 

[Dragon]

Could be that you've hit that magic number of charge cycles and the batteries are beginning to hit "retirement" age.:dontknow: I read somewhere that rechargeable batteries vary greatly in the number of cycles they will perform through before their lifespan deteriorates considerably. Considering the cost of replacement batteries, I feel fer ya.

 

[Dudelive]

Read the warranty on page 5 of the owners manual. You might have a warranty item that will be covered.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/PartsAndService/MilwaukeeWarranty.aspx

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/CMS/Diagrams/58-14-0801d3.pdf


You may also find this interesting as it has lots of information regarding batteries and their use.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Good Luck

 

[Trent Mason]

Man, that's the hurt buddy. :BangHead::BangHead::BangHead: I didn't know you weren't supposed to charge hot batteries. I know that if they're cold they won't charge. Man, seems like they have to be just right. :icon_scra My 18v Hitachi Lithium is only a few months old, but generally, I always have a fully charged battery as back up. Then when the one in the drill runs out, I put in the back up and recharge the hot one. Maybe I should wait a few minutes to let it cool before charging it. :eusa_thin I think if it were me, I would call the company. I'm not sure what the typical shelf life is for these batteries, but it might be worth giving them a ring. You never know, they might send you some new ones. But the way you described it kind've makes me think it might be the charger. Seems weird for both batteries to all of a sudden just not hold a charge. :eusa_thin

 

[Gotcha6]

I just upgraded to the Li Ion Hitachi. The old Ni-cads were short cycling. One of the chargers automatically senses when a battery is too hot to charge and won't charge it. The older didn't have that feature. Li Ion batts hold their charge much better, but they give no warning when they are about to stop.

 

[Bas]

It's possible your batteries are already at end of life. All batteries have a finite number of charges. Heat and deep discharges will hasten the process, but batteries deteriorate even when doing nothing. Dropping batteries isn't good for them either. But for hobby use, two years is definitely on the short end of the spectrum, they should last longer than that. Definitely contact Milwaukee, see if anything can be worked out.

 

[DaveO]

Read the warranty on page 5 of the owners manual. You might have a warranty item that will be covered.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/PartsAndService/MilwaukeeWarranty.aspx

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/Compound Miter Saw/Diagrams/58-14-0801d3.pdf


You may also find this interesting as it has lots of information regarding batteries and their use.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Good Luck

Thanks Dude, I'll have to look into the warranty. I don't think the drill is that old, and it's definitely not heavily used.
Dave

 

[tenhote]

About one yr ago after spending too many $ for a replacement battery, one of the guys at Woodcraft told me that there is a guy in Chapel Hill who rebuilds batteries for, at that time, around $29. Might be worth checking out.

Tenhote

 

[FredP]

either you or the elves wore em out! :roll: my money is on the elves.:rotflm:

 

[cpw]

Dave,

I agree with Bas. Your batteries may just have reached their natural end. I did some research into Li Ion batteries a couple of years ago when contemplating buying a Ryobi One+ battery and one thing I remember from that is that Lithium Ion cells have a usable life of 2-3 years REGARDLESS OF USE. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lithium-ion-battery.htm/printable

 

[CarvedTones]

Dave,

I agree with Bas. Your batteries may just have reached their natural end. I did some research into Li Ion batteries a couple of years ago when contemplating buying a Ryobi One+ battery and one thing I remember from that is that Lithium Ion cells have a usable life of 2-3 years REGARDLESS OF USE. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/lithium-ion-battery.htm/printable

This also jumps out in that link:

If you completely discharge a lithium-ion battery, it is ruined.

and from the original post:

I generally run the tool until the battery quits.

 

[ashley_phil]

imho you got a bad batch of batteries.

i got a little bosch li driver when they first came out.

i run that little bugger til its so hot i have to put it down and put the batteries in teh charger the same way.

the batteries and it are still running like a champ nearly 3 yrs later. i don't use it every week that way by no means but have seldome gone a month since i had it without using it for hours on end at least one weekend a month.

 

[gritz]

Cold is the enemy of those batteries.
If you store them in an unheated shop or in a truck, that also will shorten the life.

 

[CarvedTones]

This thread reminds me of a conversation I had when I had a cell phone that wouldn't keep a charge.

"Do you have a car charger?"
"Yes, it's right there on the same receipt; you sold it to me."
"Do you use it?"
"Yes, that's why I bought it."
"Oh, that's very bad; they kill these batteries."

It kind of went downhill from there...

 

[SubGuy]

I have a 6 yr old craftsman that the batteries have begun to show their age. Sometimes they wouldn't charge when they were hot, they would flash an error or just say it was charged. I would stick them in the freezer for a few minutes until the heat was off and then they recharged great. But they are just regular batteries.

 

[Mike Wilkins]

I have that same drill. Like you I was really happy with it when I first got it. Lots of power with minimal weight. Until I started having the same problems as you; and I did not even place a warm battery in the charger. I could understand if I was a full-time contractor using the drill 5 days a week, but I am only a serious wood butcher. I used it occasionally for household projects, but I expected longer life out of a pricey tool. I am seriously thinking of going back to regular Ni-Cads. :qright5:

 

[Phil S]

I suspect that the problem you are having is the cheap balance circuit within the battery - replacement of the battery is the only real fix and hopefully they have improved the circuit. This battery is made up of five separate cells that when fully charged are at 4.2volts each and are stopped from discharging below 3.0 volts. Hence the each hold an average of 3.6 x 5 = 18 volts. The good batteries include a balance circuit that monitors each cell and makes sure that they all reach exactly 4.2 volts when fully charged. The cheap balance circuits will turn off all charging as soon as it senses any cell reaching the max. The problem occurs when one cell does not discharge as fast as the others and then stops the charge prematurely when it quickly reaches max again. Are you sleeping yet? Let me try an example:
cell 1,2,3,4 all discharge down to the min.3.0 volts and the battery turns off
cell 5 is faulty and only discharges down to 4.0 volts
When you charge the battery cell 5 gets quickly charged back to 4.2
Cell 1-4 only get charged to 3.2 due to the short charge cycle
During use cells 1-4 will quickly discharge down to the min 3.0 volt and the batt
shut down quickly
Hope that makes some sense
New batts should fix the problem and hopefully the circuitry has been improved
phil

 

[DaveO]

I have that same drill. Like you I was really happy with it when I first got it. Lots of power with minimal weight. Until I started having the same problems as you; and I did not even place a warm battery in the charger. I could understand if I was a full-time contractor using the drill 5 days a week, but I am only a serious wood butcher. I used it occasionally for household projects, but I expected longer life out of a pricey tool. I am seriously thinking of going back to regular Ni-Cads. :qright5:

Mike, thanks for the confirmation. I have read some on-line reviews that have mentioned this problem with the batteries. Just another reason to pursue the warranty issue.

Dave

 

[DaveO]

I suspect that the problem you are having is the cheap balance circuit within the battery - replacement of the battery is the only real fix and hopefully they have improved the circuit. This battery is made up of five separate cells that when fully charged are at 4.2volts each and are stopped from discharging below 3.0 volts. Hence the each hold an average of 3.6 x 5 = 18 volts. The good batteries include a balance circuit that monitors each cell and makes sure that they all reach exactly 4.2 volts when fully charged. The cheap balance circuits will turn off all charging as soon as it senses any cell reaching the max. The problem occurs when one cell does not discharge as fast as the others and then stops the charge prematurely when it quickly reaches max again. Are you sleeping yet? Let me try an example:
cell 1,2,3,4 all discharge down to the min.3.0 volts and the battery turns off
cell 5 is faulty and only discharges down to 4.0 volts
When you charge the battery cell 5 gets quickly charged back to 4.2
Cell 1-4 only get charged to 3.2 due to the short charge cycle
During use cells 1-4 will quickly discharge down to the min 3.0 volt and the batt
shut down quickly
Hope that makes some sense
New batts should fix the problem and hopefully the circuitry has been improved
phil

Phil, that makes perfect sense, and was interesting as I don't know much about how batteries are made up. This would really contradict the statement of no memory in Li-ion batteries, in theory.

Dave