Wall Cabinet design question

[allisnut]

I read an interesting discussion on the Farmall collector's board... http://www.redpowermagazine.com/for...e-workmanship-on-your-kitchen-cabinets/page-1

The basics of the story is this - a woman went to open her under cabinet microwave door early one morning, and the upper cabinet fell off the wall and landed on her. She had a gash in her head and fractured bones in her neck, but appears to be healing better than expected. The house was a high end home, less than 10 years old, with shoddy construction details. The upper cabinet was attached to the wall with 6 screws, sounded like not all the screws hit a stud if any of them did. The back of the cabinet was attached to the carcass with staples.

Now for the question part - I am planning to build kitchen cabinets. I have a 100 year old house with rough cut 2x4 studs and 3/4 t&g pine walls under the sheet rock, so anchoring shouldn't be a problem. I'll probably put 12 3"screws in a 6' cabinet, maybe more. My plan is to use 1/2" plywood for the cabinet back in a rabbet on the edge of the 3/4" plywood sides. The joint will be glued, and probably reinforced with screws where they won't show and brad nails where I can't use screws.

What is the "right" way, or best way, to build a wall cabinet carcass? Should the back be set in a dado a half inch in from the back edge instead of flush in a rabbet? This would allow me to use a 1/2" thick french cleat rather than screwing through the cabinet back, but my uppers need to go all the way to the ceiling, so dropping them on a french cleat may not work too well.

 

[JimD]

Wow! Sorry to hear that story. My guess is there were no screws into studs. Six tells you they were having trouble finding a stud. I took down a cabinet re-doing the kitchen in a house we lived in until 1999 and found it attached to only one stud. It might have been only one drywall screw. On the other side, they had driven a screw into the plastic waste stack for the upstairs bedrooms. That had rusted off and the drywall was moldy. I cleaned up the mess including patching the hole in the pipe and hung the new cabinet to two studs with 4 screws. That cabinet was over 30 inches wide and held all our everyday dishes. It had to weigh several hundred pounds. One screw won't hold that but if it pinches the cabinet tight to the wall, the friction with the wallboard gets the load. That's why I think there were no screws into studs. If there was even one, it would have pulled the cabinet tight to the wall and I don't think it would have come down. Since it took awhile, maybe they screwed to waste plumbing too.

I don't think there is an issue with 1/4 plywood for the back but I like to use a thicker, like 3/4, strip at the top and bottom to screw through. Otherwise there is a risk of the screw pulling through the thin plywood back. Using screws with big heads helps too. If you don't want to use a separate strip to screw through then a half inch back would be safer than a 1/4. I usually attach with woodglue and staples. That will be stronger than the 1/4 plywood as long as its done correctly. Even though you have pine under the drywall I wouldn't deliberately attach the cabinet to that. It would probably be fine but if you can screw into the 2x4s I would wherever possible. You want to pull the cabinet tight to the wall. If you screw to the pine, it could come lose from the 2x4 then your cabinet isn't tight to the wall. 4 good screws is enough for even a large cabinet. Since studs are going to be 16 inches or more apart, only big cabinets will span two studs. Small ones may only attach to one. But they should be attached to other cabinets too and if you use good screws into that one stud, experience says the cabinet will stay put.

I would use a moly bolt if that is all I could use but I'd trust even a bad screw into a stud more than a moly bolt. You want screws that bite into the stud about an inch. Longer and you risk hitting plumbing and wiring. 1 inch is enough.

 

[Skymaster]

1/2" ply, dadoed into the carcase, screwed into the back of the top and bottom deck, INSTALLATION Screws into studs if you can find them, the t&g pine is a great bonus, they will hold the cabinets even if you miss a stud. Installation screws are truss headed,self drilling,awesomness :}:}:}

 

[allisnut]

My cabinets will be one piece, about 70" long, with a center divider and four doors. I can just about promise the studs won't be on 16" centers. They might average 16", but they won't be consistent.

I'll look for installation screws, and I will probably plan on a 1/2" dado inset 1/2" from the back, and a french cleat to hold it in place while I drive screws. The crown molding will cover enough gap for that.

 

[Deland]

I helped (actually just held stuff in place for a cabinet install once. The guy built his own cabinets and they had either a 3-4 in wide 3/4 ply top and bottom with 1/4 between or maybe a 1x4 t&b. He built them to go to the ceiling and used a flat cleat he mounted on the wall to the studs. That cleat was measured with a little slop widthwise to allow the cabinet some movement for alignment purpose, but when the cabinet was put up and held against the wall, it was auto leveled by the cleat and one hand could hold the cab against the wall. Since the cleats were just below where the top and bottom runners went, every screw hit a solid spot on the cleat. He marked for studs also. Seemed a bit overkill to me at the time but there was no way they were coming down.

 

[KenOfCary]

In addition to the back piece of plywood, the cabinets should have a 3/4" x say 3" strip of wood across the back to put the mounting screws into. This should be near the top of the cabinet but not at the top so it can be dado'ed into the sides. One at the bottom is extra protection.

DO NOT USE DRYWALL SCREWS. They are brittle and can break under load. Use good cabinet quality screws - others above have mentioned good brands of screws for mounting. Drywall screws are only for drywall, never use them for any other application.

 

[Roy G]

You might want to check your walls for flatness. If there is any bow or ripples in the wall, you would need to leave some excess side available for scribing to the wall. This is only for those cabinets that can be seen from the side.

Roy G

 

[Glennbear]

In addition to the back piece of plywood, the cabinets should have a 3/4" x say 3" strip of wood across the back to put the mounting screws into. This should be near the top of the cabinet but not at the top so it can be dado'ed into the sides. One at the bottom is extra protection.

DO NOT USE DRYWALL SCREWS. They are brittle and can break under load. Use good cabinet quality screws - others above have mentioned good brands of screws for mounting. Drywall screws are only for drywall, never use them for any other application.

I agree about drywall screws, now I use deck screws when I would have grabbed drywall screws for a project in my younger foolish days :wwink:

 

[walnutjerry]

When I remodeled our kitchen I stripped the walls back to the studs-----mainly because I had to get to some plumbing to make changes and I had to relocate and add more wiring. After getting those alterations done I went back with 1/2 " G1F plywood on the walls fastened with screws into the studs where cabinets were to be installed. I painted the plywood white which makes it easier to see inside the cabinets. The plywood went from floor to ceiling-----top cabinets went to the ceiling also. The space between the top and base cabinets is covered with backsplash. With the plywood behind the cabinets I could fasten top cabinets anywhere I wanted to with screws through cleats at the top, under the shelves and under the bottom of the cabinet (they are face frame cabinets). I also put screws through the top of the cabinet into the slats/ceiling joist in the ceiling. I do not worry about them coming loose.

Jerry