To Sawstop or not to Sawstop

[petebucy4638]

I have a perfectly good Grizzly 1023, 5hp table saw. It has low hours and works great. What it does not have is a riving knife. Sure, it has a splitter that works for a lot of cuts that I make, but a riving knife would be a big safety plus, at least from my perspective. The factory splitter/blade guard is also a chore to remove and replace. None of the aftermarket splitters or pseudo-riving kinves for this saw impress me much - one of them look to potentially be more dangerous than most kickbacks.

A direct replacement 1023 from Grizzly, with a riving knife will cost me around $1,600. Subtract the sales price of the old saw and I will probably be investing around $1,000 for a saw with a riving knife. I am guessing that some people are shaking their heads think that is not a great deal. Then I thought it might be worthwhile to look at getting a Sawstop Professional 3hp cabinet saw. That would up the cost by another $1,400 over the new Grizzly saw. The additional cost would include Sawstop's blade safety feature, which does nothing more to stop kickbacks than the less expensive Grizzly saw. But there is definitely value in having a saw that cannot cut off your fingers or mangle your hand, or worse.

I have to admit that I am leaning toward the greater safety of the Sawstop saw. The reviews that I have read all sing the virtues of the overall quality and performance of Sawstop products in addition to the obvious safety feature.

What do you folks think? Are Sawstop saws worth the premium that they fetch? Are they good performing saw?

Pete

 

[Brogan]

Is this an older model 1023?

The current one has a riving knife if I'm not mistaken.

Isn't it possible to retrofit a Grizzly supplied riving knife (assuming they sell it separately)?

 

[petebucy4638]

I purchased it about a year before Grizzly starting selling this saw with a riving knife. You cannot retrofit a riving knife to this saw, unfortunately.

Pete

 

[Brogan]

Dang!

That's frustrating.

 

[frankc4113]

Microjig now makes an add on riving knife insert that can be used with a zero clearance insert and can be adapted to any throat plate. Don't know if that fits your needs but for about $25-30 it seems to be decent.
I now have a Sawstop 3HP professional cabinet saw that is excellent with more than adequate power to get the jobs done that I require of it. However, the Grizzly saw you have also looks real nice. Before the Sawstop, I had a General cabinet saw and made my own throat plate with a home made ZCI that worked just fine. The safety aspect was the major reason for buying the Sawstop.

 

[petebucy4638]

I have to admit that the safety aspect of the Sawstop is appealing. I thought about the Microjig zero clearance inserts, but the reviews are, at best, mixed. I is sort of like buying a parachute is advertised to open 80% of the time. If my Grizzly saw already had a riving knife, I would not probably be considering a Sawstop, but as long as I'm in the market for a new saw, now would be the time to get the Sawstop.

Microjig now makes an add on riving knife insert that can be used with a zero clearance insert and can be adapted to any throat plate. Don't know if that fits your needs but for about $25-30 it seems to be decent.
I now have a Sawstop 3HP professional cabinet saw that is excellent with more than adequate power to get the jobs done that I require of it. However, the Grizzly saw you have also looks real nice. Before the Sawstop, I had a General cabinet saw and made my own throat plate with a home made ZCI that worked just fine. The safety aspect was the major reason for buying the Sawstop.

 

[frankc4113]

My major reason for buying the Sawstop was the safety factor.

On further thought and after reading more information about the MJ splitter, it doesn't do the same job as a riving knife. I agree with you. In addition, it's only going to be useful when the blade is at 90 degrees, doesn't travel up and down with the blade and isn't a good alternative.

 

[petebucy4638]

The MJ splitter is nowhere near as robust or strong as a factory installed splitter or riving knife. In addition to having a riving knife, Sawstops contact safety feature is unique among full-sized table saws - no one else has a similar technology. The more that I read about Sawstop saws, the more that I think that they are worth every penny. I'd far rather spend the money up-front at Rockler for a Sawstop table saw than see the money go to the local Emergency Room!

My major reason for buying the Sawstop was the safety factor.

On further thought and after reading more information about the MJ splitter, it doesn't do the same job as a riving knife. I agree with you. In addition, it's only going to be useful when the blade is at 90 degrees, doesn't travel up and down with the blade and isn't a good alternative.

 

[Michael Mathews]

How many years has it been since you cut yourself worse than a scratch? Your clock is ticking! Last time I drew serious blood was in high school on the band saw. Split my thumb about 1/2" straight on the end. My clock was ticking then I bit the bullet and got my SawStop 3hp cabinet saw. This machine is wonderful! Best table saw I'll ever own! Not only the safety factor, but the easy change riving knife. The built in splitter on the overarm blade guard with dust collection. This saw is wonderful! I don't know where Denver is, but I'll throw out an invite for you to come see it, run it, and get a feel for what it's all about. You can't go wrong!

 

[chris_goris]

Here we go again, the old tablesaw safety debate. I havent had a kickback in so many years, I cant remember the last time I had a kickback or anything want to bind up on my tablesaw. I have a PM2000 5HP cabinet saw I have been using for about 10 years, a Delta cabinet saw prior to that for I dont know how long. Neither has a riving knife or splitter installed. What I do use is very high quality lumber. Kiln dried, mainly straight grained (meaning no knots etc to cause stress issues in the wood) and I go through great pains to ensure my fence /blade and t slots are all in alignment. I run my blade at full height all the time unless of course im dadoing, this ensures the cutting blade forces are down into the table where they belong , and not back at the operator. I also believe there are some people who are a bit too timid around tablesaws. You need to respect but own them. With this I mean, you need to understand the physics and whats happening and approach them safely with all that in mind but understand you run the machine, it doesnt run you. A shaper is a far scarier machine! I know we have discussed all of this in previous posts.
Am I telling you not to buy a Sawstop? No, I would never tell anyone that, only you can decide if its worth it. You seem to be concerned about kickback and a sawstop wont stop that from happening. If they feel they need that, then buy it. Im just relating my own experiences. I will say if you feel your clock is ticking and you need to buy a sawstop for that reason, maybe you need to take up another hobby.

 

[gmakra]

I am with Chris on this.
My shop teacher and dad told me to keep my hands away from the blade!
I dont run any machine when I dont feel alert enough to be safe.
No amount of electronics will ever replace having your wits about you and common sense.

 

[BrianBDH]

I spent the extra money for the SawStop for the safety features alone.

I have the 1.75 HP contractor saw and it was a big step up from my direct drive Delta saw. Happy with the performance and the quality of my saw.

It does have a few annoying things about it that might or might not be on the cabinet saw. First, I didn't think the fence that came with my saw was adequate for the $1800 price. Having said this, I never installed it. I attached the Delta T2 fence from my old saw. Another thing that is annoying is that sawdust accumulates on the vertical adjustment mechanism and the blade won't retract completely below the table surface until I crawl under there and blow it out. Also, plan on $125 to buy a new throat plate from Infinity Tools and some disposabal inserts. The SawStop throat plates are too much a pain to make your own, and the cost is too high to buy a handful for zero clearance, dado, etc.

So as not to end on a negative note, I now have some peace of mind when my son wants to use the saw.

 

[patlaw]

I run my blade at full height all the time unless of course im dadoing, this ensures the cutting blade forces are down into the table where they belong , and not back at the operator.

Hmmm. This is the first time I've heard of anyone doing this (not that I know much about table saws.) It seems to make a lot of sense. When the blade barely peeks above the wood, the blade is cutting toward the operator instead of toward the top of the saw. Does anyone else do this?

 

[patlaw]

I now have some peace of mind when my son wants to use the saw.

And that alone is enough reason to get a SawStop. When I get my table saw, I'm getting a 1.75HP SawStop. Hopefully it will be soon. The garage cleanup is coming around slowly, but it's happening. I'd rather overpay and keep a finger. Plus, as discussed here, it's an excellent saw.

 

[Michael Mathews]

Sorry I said anything. Please disregard my note. I've never had kick back either. But that wasn't what I was taking about. It's your choice.

 

[patlaw]

Sorry I said anything. Please disregard my note. I've never had kick back either. But that wasn't what I was taking about. It's your choice.

I thought your post was quite helpful. What did I miss?

 

[Hmerkle]

Pete,
If you are in Denver, you might consider heading Klingspor in Hickory for a hands-on of the Saw Stop and maybe some help with your final decision. Klingspor is a HUGE supporter of the site and spending our money there is a great way to say thank you!

 

[bowman]

No apologies needed Michael. You were simply relating your personal experiences and there is nothing wrong with that. You offered to show Pete the SawStop in person, he can accept the offer or not.

I do not own a SawStop and cannot offer any feedback about them. They look nice, but they do require the same amount of safety observance as any other piece of machinery.

 

[tarheelz]

Hmmm. This is the first time I've heard of anyone doing this (not that I know much about table saws.) It seems to make a lot of sense. When the blade barely peeks above the wood, the blade is cutting toward the operator instead of toward the top of the saw. Does anyone else do this?

I split the difference. Rather than going with what I was taught as a kid (raise the blade just enough to clear the top of the board), I go at it like this:

1) Raise the blade so that between half and a whole of the gullet is above the board. (Theory is that the blade might perform better with some air clearance for the gullets (and expansion slots) at the top.)
2) Raise the blade all the way up for plywood cuts. (Theory is that I want the teeth cutting more up/down through the layers, not back/front.)
3) Use the blade guard whenever it possible.

signed - SawStop owner with absolutely no clue whether what I'm doing makes any scientific sense at all.

 

[Berta]

I happen to own a SawStop. My choice.