thinning contact cement for spray application

[oderus1671]

Hello all, at work weve just begun spraying our contact cement and have a question about thinning contact cement.
Ive been told you can thin it with toluene, and weve had good sucess doing so. we have been spraying it from a binks 2001 gun with a 2 quart pressure pot with good results, except the veneer we use is 20 mil paper backed, because of all the curvy stuff in our boats. When we spray the cement, sometimes it tends to get a bit "chunky" because of the viscosity of the glue. Those "chunks" then in turn have a tendency to transfer thru the veneer during the finish stage.
I think if we thinned the glue down a bit more, it will reduce the chunks, but Im a bit scared to thin it too much that it wont hold. Has anyone had any experience thinning contact cement? Changing over to another system like the 3M spray system isnt an option since the budget is small and were lucky to have a job! Thanks for looking!
Chris
:help:

 

[Tarhead]

Can you strain the chunks out of it with a paint strainer? Most of the industrial suppliers have 800 numbers you can call and get advice. Give 'em a call. I've only used 3M 90 in a spray can and it will stop birds in flight with all the chemicals in it and it ain't cheap either!

 

[oderus1671]

thanks,
actually the chunks are not in the material itself, but when its sprayed thru the gun it glops up in spitballs. probably cause its thick stuff.

 

[Skymaster]

besides viscosity issue it sounds like a nozzle issue. If I had this problem there are 3 things I would do: 1 Yes call glue mfg
2. Call Binks and get their rep to stop in with some different nozzles to try.
3. adjust your distance to the substrate, Globs may mean you are too close.
also important here, these globs are they wet and gooey or dry? If they are more to the dry side then your gun is too far away from the substrate.

I know cost is an issue but I switched over to pressurized canisters sta-put is mine there are others. IF you are doing alot of this work you may want to cost compare include your labor!!
At first blush canisters seem crazy expensive but overall they are sooooooooooo much better.
Jack

Other big thought NO INSULT INTENDED HERE but are you using the proper contact made just for spraying, not trying to thin out roller grade?

 

[Howard Acheson]

The very first thing I would do is call the manufacturer. They will have the best info about how to use their product. Contact cements are all different. Using the wrong chemicals can not only cause performance problems but can cause health problems also.

 

[oderus1671]

hello...
-as far as distance, ive tried anywhere from 6-8 inches to 3 feet! 3 feet makes the glue stringy. like the spray string in a can, and 6-8 inches is wet and gloppy. any variation in between is either too wet and gloppy or too dry and stringy.
-i wil contact the mfg as you suggested on monday and give an update on what they say here
-as far as the type of contact cement, Im not really sure if its spray grade or roll grade. Honestly, I never knew there was a difference:BangHead: the stuff we use is called Permagrip, a heavy duty industrial type. Its very thick, so i suppose its for rolling like you say. Guess I need to research that as well!

In short, the glue we use we are very happy with. As our veneer is being used in a marine environment, so its gotta be tough!

And I will discuss this with our paint guy to talk about the spray nozzles, as well like you suggested..

So does anyone know if its safe to thin contact cement with toluene safely and effectively?
Thanks so much for the insight !:icon_thum

 

[Skymaster]

http://www.gtmands.com/adhesives.html Just for info :} Notice the photos of the Hybond cans and read labels :}:}:}:}

I just skimmed thru the site and take some time to read it great info for you on your Permagrip IN PRESSURIZED CANNISTERS LOL YES
Jack

 

[FredP]

-as far as the type of contact cement, Im not really sure if its spray grade or roll grade. Honestly, I never knew there was a difference:BangHead: the stuff we use is called Permagrip, a heavy duty industrial type. Its very thick, so i suppose its for rolling like you say. Guess I need to research that as well!
[/QUOTE]


there is a large difference between spray and roller grade contact cement. spray grade will be much thinner to make spraying easier. I would not try thinning roller grade.:nah: the end result may look fine but may not hold up.:dontknow: back in the day we used 3 different types of contact cement. not sure about what's available now. yellow was roller grade, red was spray grade, and green was spray grade waterborn. the green was crap from the word go but it was required by some of our customers soo..... I don't remember brand names. It sounds like you may be trying to spray roller grade glue.:dontknow:

 

[sapwood]

No help here, but it's great to see you online again :icon_thum
Drove by your workplace last week and wondered how things were going.

FWIW, here's a pix I took a couple of years ago at the shop where Chris works 8-O
There is also an album in my photo gallery titled OBX Shop Visit . . .

Roger

 

[DaveD]

Thinning with and spraying a flammable product. :no: Have you read the MSDS on toluene?
http://www.veegee.com/msds/m1003.pdf

Why not just buy the right sprayable commercial stuff to begin with?

Does OSHA have a say in your operation?

You might want to read the MSDS on the particular permagrip product you are using too.

Don't want to hear about you on the 5 PM news.

 

[shopsmithtom]

Hi, new guy here, haven't even had time to really introduce myself to the group yet, but thought I throw in my 2 cents worth as I've had some experience spraying both paints & adhesives. Lots of good comments so far so much of this is just an echo of them.
I definitely would not spray an adhesive that was not packaged as a sprayable product, especially if you're using it on a product you're selling.
First, OSHA. The odds are they won't stop by, but if they do they might not take kindly to your using a hazardous material that you're altering from its original state.
Next, even if you're thinning with the correct solvent for the product based on getting that info from the manufacturer, Most products have sensitive chemical formulas & there may be a max amount you can thin (think water based wood finishes...you can't just add a bunch of water to thin them) or you may need to alter the formula altogether when you thin. One would like to think that you can just add some evaporative solvent, spray, let the solvent evaporate, and there's been no real change, but it isn't always the case.
If you save a bit of money but alter the effectiveness of the adhesive, the cost of returns, customer service & loss of good reputation could put a company under.
Wow, that ended up being a lot more than I intended to say when I started out. Is everyone out there still awake? It's nice to be here (at least for me)...I may have bored everybody else to death with my first preachy post, but that's my story & I'm stickin' to it.

 

[Skymaster]

:rotflm::rotflm::rotflm: And? More More

 

[oderus1671]

just an update... manufacturer states it can be sprayed or rolled, and can be cut with lacquer thinner. i dont agree with lacquer thinner, cause i heard it cuts the solids as well as the viscosity. got together with our paint guy and hes given me a couple different needles to try in the binks. also, reducing the pressure in the pot helped quite a bit as well. will let you guys know how that goes.

 

[oderus1671]

Thinning with and spraying a flammable product. :no: Have you read the MSDS on toluene?
http://www.veegee.com/msds/m1003.pdf

Why not just buy the right sprayable commercial stuff to begin with?

Does OSHA have a say in your operation?

You might want to read the MSDS on the particular permagrip product you are using too.

Don't want to hear about you on the 5 PM news.

LOL OSHA looms over our shoulder like the gubbament on tax day!:gar-La; were set up for all the protective gear we need, ie, respirators, gloves, spray suits, ect. an I enforce their use in the shop forcefully!

 

[DaveD]

I was actually thinking more from the flammability standpoint than suits/masks/respirators/etc. Don't need to hear something go boom.

I will have to admit to thinning paint with gasoline though. 45 years ago, in the army, making vehicles look good 5 minutes before inspection time. Boy did that paint dry fast.