The Sherwin Williams Industrial experience

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
I use professional products which are not available through normal retail, normally Lenmar (Benjamin Moore)

So I tried Sherwin Williams industrial products out of Charlotte, as the products are not available at the normal Sherwin Williams store outlets.

Here is the experience:

Sales rep was helpful in recommendations, products and application as well as matching the color to a customer specification.
Ordered by his recommendation over the phone with a business credit card.
Later, same day got two fraudulent credit card transactions to Nike, had to call Bank of America, cancel card, get a new one mailed.
Was promised an email invoice which never happened, a total amount was billed to the card, but no invoice no details.
Product was delivered poorly packed to the wrong address. Some of the cans were damaged enough to have slight leaks, but I persevered.
Finished a customer job, the products really worked well, similar to Lenmar, shipped the job 700 miles away from NC to NJ, 200lb. crate.
Customer called, the color was completely off, sent me pictures of the color on other items in his home, compared to the job color. Sherwin Williams did a color which was not even close to the specification provided.
Crate will be shipped back at around $400, I have to repaint the job and ship it back at another $400.
The Sales Rep has gone quiet.
Sent corporate a message, will be interesting to see if they care.
Needless to say, I will stick with what I used before and avoid these folks.

Sorry for the rant, just very frustrating.
 

sawman101

Bruce Swanson
Corporate Member
My Sherwin-Williams experience has been very good! But that is at the retail level. At the Hickory outlet I purchased an industrial quality acrylic urethane plus reducer and hardener; the sales rep was extremely helpful and knowledgeable. The color was Flambeau Red which is the same color of Case tractors, only this was the original color used on an Economy/Power King tractor I restored and painted. The acrylic urethane product for a tractor is ideal. I'm really sorry to learn of your experience Willem.
 

McRabbet

Rob
Corporate Member
Willem, That is a sad story, indeed. It is hard to believe that a company with their level of reputation would do such a lousy job. No excuses for such poor fulfillment and to leave you holding the bag.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
My Sherwin-Williams experience has been very good! But that is at the retail level. At the Hickory outlet I purchased an industrial quality acrylic urethane plus reducer and hardener; the sales rep was extremely helpful and knowledgeable. The color was Flambeau Red which is the same color of Case tractors, only this was the original color used on an Economy/Power King tractor I restored and painted. The acrylic urethane product for a tractor is ideal. I'm really sorry to learn of your experience Willem.
I have good experience here at the Southern Pines store also. They do not handle the industrial products though, they don't carry it, cannot special order it and those products are not even in their system.
 

Henry W

HenryW
Senior User
I have good experience here at the Southern Pines store also. They do not handle the industrial products though, they don't carry it, cannot special order it and those products are not even in their system.
Interesting - I have been able to get SW industrial products through the retail store in Raleigh... maybe not the same ones you were using (and I can't recall exactly what they were - exterior 'long life' coating products used on metal roofs is all I recall.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
Interesting - I have been able to get SW industrial products through the retail store in Raleigh... maybe not the same ones you were using (and I can't recall exactly what they were - exterior 'long life' coating products used on metal roofs is all I recall.
Not sure about roof paint, but industrial wood products are only available at their industrial outlets. They have similar products at the local outlets for residential and commercial use, but they dry slower, have lower VOC ratings and don’t perform as well.
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
why did you switch paint suppliers if Lenmar was your go to company?
Lenmar has challenges when it comes to making up solid colors. It has to be shipped from out of state and takes a lot more time. No one close in North Carolina. The big guys mix their own colors, I am just a small business.
 

Phil S

Board of Directors, President
Phil Soper
Staff member
Corporate Member
You might want to give Horizon Forest Products a try. They will mix any color in pre-cat, post-cat, whatever you need. full service operation is in Raleigh. I am trying to remember what product line they carry but I cannot remember - might be ML Campbell. Good folks there, they seem to know what customer service means
 

DSWalker

David
Corporate Member
We, my builder and his painter had a bad exp with SW. We picked a paint color for 2 bedrooms and a bath. We had the small half pint container with color code and name to make sure they got it right.

Painter took it to SW and apparently just provided the color. Bought 5 gallons, painted 1 of the bedrooms before we got home. Was supposed to be a light grey. It was almost black! They had 2 colors with the exact same name, and the codes were only different by a D vs 0 in the same spot.

Painter and SW guy should have looked at sample closer but who has two colors with the exact same name!?!?
 

Wiley's Woodworks

Wiley
Corporate Member
I just went through an equally frustrating and exasperating experience with Sherwin Williams stores in the Asheville area. I have a Sherwin Williams branded HVLP sprayer set up made by Graco, and needed the gun serviced, a quick connect, and maybe a new hose. Graco products are currently sold in SW stores. I must have made ten phone calls trying to locate a SW store that dealt with tradesmen and carried contractor grade products. I got bounced around from store to store, finally talking to someone who said, "Sure, come on in and we'll take care of it." Fat chance. When I got there (after driving one hour) no one in the store even knew anything about HVLP equipment. I finally got them to understand what I needed and was assured they would contact Graco and get what I needed. I left the store not confident. Sure enough, four days later and no reply.

I then went to another store that was recommended by the local DeWalt-Delta-Milwaukee service center that doesn't do any work on sprayer equipment but had sent other customers to this SW store before. The second store gave me a big song and dance about how they would have to have the entire rig--turbine, hose, and gun--and I would have to pay to ship it to Charlotte and back plus whatever they would charge for parts and labor. Their attitude clearly showed they just didn't want to deal with a repair/service issue at all.

I'm convinced Sherwin Williams has deteriorated into just another retail hustle that is set up to just sell buckets of paint, rollers and brushes, and the company is coasting on its reputation. They'll never get any of my business, and they have a store in my small town. Willem, I feel your pain.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
Interesting, I switched to SW from BM for service disappointments. I specify SW's highest performance industrial coatings (marine / petroleum) via the Raleigh rep, but I don't have any idea where manufacturing and distribution is.

How was the color specified, was this SW's own product or was cross-product or -manufacture involved? Sounds like the actual sample wasn't with the actual painting? Like you, I've learned the hard way regarding color matching. We insist on large physical samples to define final colors, not spec. (As in, "I know it's SW #____ or Pantone U-____, but that large chip right there is the actual color and supersedes everything else.") Between pigments, formulations, substrates, temperature, humidity, lighting, typos, batch variation, thinning, product changes, metamerism, etc., color matching is basically impossible without the actual sample. Most people can not differentiate slight variations, thus manufacturing establishes tolerances for "good enough." But people with excellent color acuity can easily spot manufacturer chips of the "same color" from different batches.

I recently got a Nix Pro 2 to help me compare across manufacturers and it does surprisingly well. I didn't think a hand-held unit would work at all, but it mostly helps me find cross-manufacturer colors. But I occasionally scan actual manufacturer samples to test and it sometimes misses. I'd love to blame the device but I can see the variations between samples.
 

Oka

Oka
Corporate Member
Do a little research and find out who manages that office, then who is a regional director. Then, write him an email/letter and cc those people.

Start the writing this way, "Dear xxx Over the years I always have had good experiences with XX company and will recommend them to my clients or other contractors, until now......... After this recent experience and the lack of service or in fact, No Service whatsoever, not only makes me disappointment, leaving me no alternative but to quit using this company's products since they are not interested in building long lasting relationships with the clients they sell to.

That is the kind of opening I use ... a lot more smarmy and contrite, then I dig in with the background and I totally run over the rep who is flaking out. 100% of the time I get a response from the upper management.

IF someone is blowing you off or hiding do not be afraid to be aggressive (politely) and remember in this case you are the victim so, Take No Prisoners.
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
I second Horizon, tho I dont think they do paint, here is my supplier Spectrum Paint | Top Quality Paint & Coatings Solutions. They do my lacquer, same as yours and PAINT, great folks, will go the xtra 10 miles. I recently had a paint jog and the customers paint was Advance, when I read thru it was a bloody nightmare, 24 hr between coats etc, these folks whipped up PPG Breakthru, 30 min dry,latex, same xtra hard finish etc matched the color perfectly and are a spray equipment supplier. For what is is worth mention custom carpentry sent you. (919) 261-1220
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
Interesting, I switched to SW from BM for service disappointments. I specify SW's highest performance industrial coatings (marine / petroleum) via the Raleigh rep, but I don't have any idea where manufacturing and distribution is.

How was the color specified, was this SW's own product or was cross-product or -manufacture involved? Sounds like the actual sample wasn't with the actual painting? Like you, I've learned the hard way regarding color matching. We insist on large physical samples to define final colors, not spec. (As in, "I know it's SW #____ or Pantone U-____, but that large chip right there is the actual color and supersedes everything else.") Between pigments, formulations, substrates, temperature, humidity, lighting, typos, batch variation, thinning, product changes, metamerism, etc., color matching is basically impossible without the actual sample. Most people can not differentiate slight variations, thus manufacturing establishes tolerances for "good enough." But people with excellent color acuity can easily spot manufacturer chips of the "same color" from different batches.

I recently got a Nix Pro 2 to help me compare across manufacturers and it does surprisingly well. I didn't think a hand-held unit would work at all, but it mostly helps me find cross-manufacturer colors. But I occasionally scan actual manufacturer samples to test and it sometimes misses. I'd love to blame the device but I can see the variations between samples.
Color was a standard Ball and Pointing code 2003 matched perfectly before by the customer’s local Sherwin Williams outlet. The industrial branch out of Charlotte blended the front door in the picture, the door behind it was B&P 2003.

A7604859-8318-493E-A0ED-026B7D00DDEF.jpeg
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
You might want to give Horizon Forest Products a try. They will mix any color in pre-cat, post-cat, whatever you need. full service operation is in Raleigh. I am trying to remember what product line they carry but I cannot remember - might be ML Campbell. Good folks there, they seem to know what customer service means
Phil, you the man!
I just called these folks and their prices are wholesale competitive, they deliver here and can supply just about all the materials I use in my shop. They are switching from Lenmar to Kemcraft which is a good product and will work for me.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
Color was a standard Ball and Pointing code 2003 matched perfectly before by the customer’s local Sherwin Williams outlet. The industrial branch out of Charlotte blended the front door in the picture, the door behind it was B&P 2003.
Wow, that's a big miss. But they're so far apart it looks more than a matching issue. What is "Ball and Pointing", do you mean Farrow&Ball color #2003 "Pointing"? For what it's worth, the panel on the front matches my chip of that color more closely than the panel behind. Which is the original? The back panel looks like oil that has aged a bit, are they both acrylic/latex?
 

Willemjm

Willem
Corporate Member
Wow, that's a big miss. But they're so far apart it looks more than a matching issue. What is "Ball and Pointing", do you mean Farrow&Ball color #2003 "Pointing"? For what it's worth, the panel on the front matches my chip of that color more closely than the panel behind. Which is the original? The back panel looks like oil that has aged a bit, are they both acrylic/latex?
Yep, you have the color spec correct.
Interesting, here is a color chip, but digital can be misleading.
SW are actually looking into this, but the photo chip does look more yellow.
Moral of the story, if someone gives me a color spec in the future, it has to come with a sample.
A05BF8D5-7E73-40CB-8E75-90D4AE130DED.png
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
Yep, you have the color spec correct.
Interesting, here is a color chip, but digital can be misleading.
SW are actually looking into this, but the photo chip does look more yellow.
Moral of the story, if someone gives me a color spec in the future, it has to come with a sample.
Yes, chain of custody even. They can change in the back of a hot, humid delivery truck. It would be fun to use a Nix scanner to see what color was actually produced... maybe one adjacent on the sample chart. ;)
 

Skymaster

Jack
Senior User
Willem Horizon has really great lumber also, lots of different hardwoods and pre fin maple ply but hood is cheaper on ply
 

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