Strange Gas Log Problem

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patlaw

Mike
Corporate Member
We bought a new house several months ago. The house has two fireplaces with gas logs. The pilot has to be lit manually. While I got the pilot to burn successfully, it made a lot of noise. In fact, here's a video of the pilot with the noise it made.

[video=youtube;73izIMRc2zM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73izIMRc2zM[/video]

The short story is that I viewed some videos and decided that the pilot valve was open too much. After I figured out how to adjust the flame, I was able to back it down to a very small, pilot-sized flame. When I did, the noise went away.
'
Here are my questions: How is it that both fireplaces are set too high? The PSNC guy was here and did not suggest at any point that the gas pressure was too high. Why was it necessary to have to adjust the pilot? The factory instructions say that the pilot valve is preset and does not normally need to be adjusted.

It's possible that the previous homeowner misadjusted them, but I can't imagine a reason why they would do so.
 

CrealBilly

New User
Jeff
Sounds like a freight train... Could be the logs are set up for natural gas and your burning propane - IDK just a guess??? I know when i installed my furnace it came set up for natutal gas and i had to convert it to propane. Maybe that's it?

Best to call in a HVAC guy to check it out though, gas can be dangerous, deadly even...
 

ehpoole

Administrator
Ethan
Generally a pilot flame need only be great enough to adequately keep the thermocouple hot so as to avoid a nuisance automatic shutoff (a safety feature in the event the pilot light goes out or oxygen levels drop too low when properly dialed in). It should also remain a clean blue flame with no significant orange anywhere in the flame, which makes for a clean burning flame that supports full combustion, and thus no carbon monoxide production.

If you can, either refer to the installation manual to ensure it is setup and adjusted properly or bring out a professional (HVAC, plumber, or gas company) to handle the adjustment for you if not confident in your ability or knowledge (or if you can not find an installation manual). If you have to do any disassembly shutoff gas to the logs and then check for leaks using a
soapy water mix (or use children's bubble blow solution) and an applicator brush and apply around every joint or connection to reveal any leaks that might require attention.
 

Phil S

Phil Soper
Staff member
Corporate Member
I bet Jeff has it - wrong gas. what does the label say natural or LP ?
 

AllanD

Allan
Corporate Member
Mike can answer but sounds like it was the other way around. I take it that "PSNC guy" means he has natural gas. LP is a "hotter" gas and would use a smaller orifice. We made the switch this year from LP to Natural, what a relief.
 

patlaw

Mike
Corporate Member
The logs say natural gas, and the PSNC service to the house is natural gas. Now you've got me wondering if the logs have the correct orifice. Would I have been able to properly regulate the pilot if the LP orifice was installed?

We're going to replace them this year anyway if we can find a reputable dealer that answers his phone.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Why did you begin messing around with the pilot light to begin with? I'm guessing that nothing has changed with the fireplaces from the last owners to you folks as the new owners. You're fiddling around with things that you should not fiddle with; the pilot flame is a rich blue color and looks like a blow torch because it has to heat the thermocouple and thermopile so that the main gas valve will open and voila, we have heat.

How do they work after you turned down the pilot light from a roar?

Here are my questions: How is it that both fireplaces are set too high? The PSNC guy was here and did not suggest at any point that the gas pressure was too high. Why was it necessary to have to adjust the pilot? The factory instructions say that the pilot valve is preset and does not normally need to be adjusted.
 

CrealBilly

New User
Jeff
Why did you begin messing around with the pilot light to begin with? I'm guessing that nothing has changed with the fireplaces from the last owners to you folks as the new owners. You're fiddling around with things that you should not fiddle with; the pilot flame is a rich blue color and looks like a blow torch because it has to heat the thermocouple and thermopile so that the main gas valve will open and voila, we have heat.

How do they work after you turned down the pilot light from a roar?

I think you would agree... obviously something is wrong - a pilot should not sound like a freight train.

Get a HVAC guy in there to fix the problem. Like i said before gas is dangerous, deadly even.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Most natural gas systems are set for 2 psi. LP gas is usually regulated to 11" W.C. or about 1/2 psi. Still, tampering with a pilot light assembly by an unqualified individual, albeit the homeowner, could void both your gas log warranty and your homeowner's insurance. If it's a new home, let the contractor deal with it.
 

Frank Berry

New User
Frank
When I had this house built about 16 years ago I found that when I used my oven the flames would actually come up above the oven door when I opened it. The oven th urned black and it had a terrible sound coming from it. I had it checked by my LP gas supplier and we found that the builder never converted from natural to LP. I ended up having to replace the brand new stove which I had the builder pay for, and then called in my LP gas supplier to convert over the LP gas. Never had another problem with noisy gas valve again. Make sure your appliance was converted if on propane. If that is not it, have the house regulator checked to make sure they installed the proper size for your supply.
 

CrealBilly

New User
Jeff
When I had this house built about 16 years ago I found that when I used my oven the flames would actually come up above the oven door when I opened it. The oven th urned black and it had a terrible sound coming from it. I had it checked by my LP gas supplier and we found that the builder never converted from natural to LP. I ended up having to replace the brand new stove which I had the builder pay for, and then called in my LP gas supplier to convert over the LP gas. Never had another problem with noisy gas valve again. Make sure your appliance was converted if on propane. If that is not it, have the house regulator checked to make sure they installed the proper size for your supply.

Lol yep... flames coming out of the oven is a sure sign something was wrong.
 

patlaw

Mike
Corporate Member
Why did you begin messing around with the pilot light to begin with? I'm guessing that nothing has changed with the fireplaces from the last owners to you folks as the new owners. You're fiddling around with things that you should not fiddle with; the pilot flame is a rich blue color and looks like a blow torch because it has to heat the thermocouple and thermopile so that the main gas valve will open and voila, we have heat.

Actually I thought I did a pretty good job explaining the problem in my original post. When I lit the pilot(s) for the first time, they sounded like blow torches. I've had a gas fireplace for years. None of them has ever sounded like a blow torch.

The house was built in 1989. The gas valves are Jade Controls J100-A1A. They were probably installed at that time. The Jade company is long gone. The White-Rodgers 764-702 appears to be the same valve.

Natural gas has always been available here. I doubt they were ever run on propane. However, that doesn't mean the right ones were installed or that they were configured correctly. That's why I'm asking the questions.

How do they work after you turned down the pilot light from a roar?

It seems like they're working as they should. The thermopile and the thermocouple operate correctly, and the pilot and the gas logs remain lit after the thermopile heats up.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Mike, no offense intended but your questions prompted my questions after I did a bit of online research too. The supply to the house has always been natural gas but if the valves were replaced for some reason perhaps they weren't reset for the lower operating pressure of natural gas. :dontknow:

It seems like they're working as they should. The thermopile and the thermocouple operate correctly, and the pilot and the gas logs remain lit after the thermopile heats up.

That's good! Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow...
 

patlaw

Mike
Corporate Member
Mike, no offense intended but your questions prompted my questions after I did a bit of online research too. The supply to the house has always been natural gas but if the valves were replaced for some reason perhaps they weren't reset for the lower operating pressure of natural gas.

No offense taken.

Now I'm really confused. Gotcha6 said, "Most natural gas systems are set for 2 psi. LP gas is usually regulated to 11" W.C. or about 1/2 psi." Based on his post, LP is at 1/4 the pressure of natural gas.
 

nn4jw

New User
Jim
I believe you can just place a service call to PSNC and they'll send someone out who can check your whole system, from the meter to the logs. It used to be free, but these days I really don't know if that's still true or not. In any case they can be sure about pressures and take action if it's not correct.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Staff member
Corporate Member
Natural gas pressures are regulated prior to the meter in the pipe line. It not unheard of but highly unusual for them to fail. Some years back gas companies would run 6 psi systems for high volume commercial usage, but I could not fathom that being the case here. I'm not that experienced in pilot lights, but nearly every one I have lit sounded like Mike's while I was using the manual override to get the pilot lit. It would usually settle down after the thermocouple was up to temp and the system set to go.
 

ShawnS

New User
Shawn
are you running lp or natural gas? I worked for several years for a propane company installing things like gas longs and stoves, I'm sorry if I missed in somewhere in these posts but a little more detail? If its lb there has to be an external regulator that could be the problem, its should cut the pressure coming into the house down to about 7 pound, if its natural gas I'm not sure on that pressure.
 
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