Stain help needed

[nelsone]

I have a large library built in I am working on and I need some advice on stain application. The unit is maple ply and maple hardwood for the face frames. I have stained a couple pieces of scrap to see how the finish turns out. Both the ply and hardwood are sanded to 150 grit, but the hardwood is several shades lighter than the ply. Obviously I am not getting enough penetration in the hardwood. The ply is about the the shade my clients want. What do I need to do to get the hardwood to the same shade?

I am using General Finishes Antique Cherry oil stain. On a related note, my clients want this unit to be slightly darker, but it is real close. They are wanting to closely match the color of their kitchen cabinets. Can I mix a darker stain to darken the color? What about dye? Letting the stain soak in longer does not help.

Thanks for any help you can give!

Ed

http://familywoodworking.org/forums/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=40365

 

[Nativespec]

It it is hard maple, the stain will not penatrate. A surface stain (like paint) will be the only way and it will easily scratch off prior to top coats. I have given up on stains for most of what I make-I don't care what Bob Flexner says, I like wood the natural way, not because of the challange of staining, but I think I like things natural (and my hands stay cleaner).

 

[adowden]

I had the best luck with staining hard maple and maple ply by using a gel stain. I used Zar, but I think general finishes has some gel stains too. I sanded to 180 with a random orbital sander, and hand sanded at 220. If the hard maple is lighter, you can try one extra application of stain or letting the gel stain sit on a little longer. There is a post from 2/25/07 (staining hard maple) that details all of my steps, but I don't know how to link it. In this post Jeff also explains toners too.

Here is a picture of my final project.

 

[Howard Acheson]

First, the reason plywood absorbs more stain than solid wood is that as the veneer is peeled off the log, it is slightly microscopically split. This created areas for pigments to lodge. These areas are not available on solid wood.

There are a number of ways to deal with this. One is to sand the veneer to a higher grit than the solid wood. But since you want things darker, that is not a good choice. Another option is to use a darker stain on the solid wood. You would have to experiment with different stains to get what you are looking for. A big impediment in your case is that maple has almost no pores so pigment stains do not have places to lodge. When you wipe off the excess stain, you wipe off most of the pigment so little coloring remains.

The way many professionals and commercial finishers deal with it is to first use a dye stain having a weak color approuching the final color. The dye will be absorbed more evenly and will sort of tie the two wood together. After the dye, a wash coat of shellac is applied followed by a gel stain. A gel stain can be varied as you apply it so that the color is even. It takes practice but, because the gel is being applied over a shellac, you can wipe off the gel stain with a rag dampened with mineral spirits. Therefore, you can start over.

Finally, for the future, if you are trying to match something darker, it is always best to start out with the same wood as the item you are trying to match.

 

[JohnW]

Ed,
I have a little experience trying to do what you ask. It's a challenge for sure. I had very poor results using stain on maple. Then I tried dye (Transtint water base) This penetrated and colored the maple but was a bit splotchy. But the wood was a production made table and was made using what I would call scrap maple intended to be painted. If you are using wood from the same board your results would probably be better.

I also tried dye in shellac and had fair results with that. Since the ply is the desired color, you could use blond on it and use blond colored with dye on the hardwood. Although 2 shades is not easy to apply on a case already built.

I have 4 or 5 bottles of Transtint in various colors and you are welcome to experiment with them. Let me know.

 

[nelsone]

Thanks all for the advice! John, I am trying some of the transtint. It is giving the desired tone and I'm hoping the Arm-R-Seal will bring the depth I want. I'll let you know how it turns out!