Spaceballs

[tdukes]

UGH!!

So, Sunday, I glued up my raised panels for the wall cabinet I'm building. I allowed an 1/8" for side to side movement and 1/16" top to bottom. I used MLCS's raised panel calculator. I allowed 3/32" around the doors as they will be inset with euro hinges.

I put spaceballs in the stiles and rails and did a dry fit. No way I was going to get the rails to fit with the spaceballs so I left them out but added the to the stiles. I had to crank down the parallel clamps, I mean I had to put some armstrong on them.

After they had been glued together for 24 hrs. I took the clamps off and put a coat of finish on one side.

Today, I planned on putting a second coat of finish on them but, I found the glue joints had separated.

I was able to pry the rails and stiles loose from where they separated and removed the spaceballs with very little damage and glued it back up.

Maybe I should have allowed more the an 1/8" and a 1/16" for wood movement if I planned on using space balls.

 

[chris_goris]

UGH!!

So, Sunday, I glued up my raised panels for the wall cabinet I'm building. I allowed an 1/8" for side to side movement and 1/16" top to bottom. I used MLCS's raised panel calculator. I allowed 3/32" around the doors as they will be inset with euro hinges.

I put spaceballs in the stiles and rails and did a dry fit. No way I was going to get the rails to fit with the spaceballs so I left them out but added the to the stiles. I had to crank down the parallel clamps, I mean I had to put some armstrong on them.

After they had been glued together for 24 hrs. I took the clamps off and put a coat of finish on one side.

Today, I planned on putting a second coat of finish on them but, I found the glue joints had separated.

I was able to pry the rails and stiles loose from where they separated and removed the spaceballs with very little damage and glued it back up.

Maybe I should have allowed more the an 1/8" and a 1/16" for wood movement if I planned on using space balls.

I use them alot, I make the panel 5/16 smaller in both directions

 

[Opensightryan]

Be careful with Spaceballs their known to steal air. ( I hate myself for that)

 

[Jeff]

Why in the heck did you use spaceballs for a frame and panel cabinet door for your bathroom. They're not needed for a floating panel, are a PITA as you've discovered, and the panel isn't gonna be rattling around and shifting side to side when the doors are opened and closed.

Just my uninformed viewpoint.

 

[tdukes]

Why in the heck did you use spaceballs for a frame and panel cabinet door for your bathroom. They're not needed for a floating panel, are a PITA as you've discovered, and the panel isn't gonna be rattling around and shifting side to side when the doors are opened and closed.

Just my uninformed viewpoint.

I didn't know better. Thought you had to put them in for raised panel doors.

 

[Willemjm]

Why in the heck did you use spaceballs for a frame and panel cabinet door for your bathroom. They're not needed for a floating panel, are a PITA as you've discovered, and the panel isn't gonna be rattling around and shifting side to side when the doors are opened and closed.

Just my uninformed viewpoint.

I always use them, never had an issue. Provided the work is accurate they are great for centering the panel in the frame and prevent problems with wood movement.

 

[tdukes]

I always use them, never had an issue. Provided the work is accurate they are great for centering the panel in the frame and prevent problems with wood movement.

I thought my panels were off initially. Checked them with a Woodpeckers precision rule, dead nuts on the money. I don't think an 1/8" is enough to allow for spaceballs that are 1/4" in diameter. That's squeezing 1/2" in 1/4" space. That or the MLCS raised panel calculator is wrong.

Will know better next time. Live and learn.

 

[junquecol]

Never buy space balls, make your own. When you open a tube of silicon caulk, take what's left and squeeze out a 1/4" ribbon on wax paper. When dry, cut ribbons into 3/8" lengths. You could pin the panel thru both top and bottom rails at center point, and forget the space balls..

 

[tdukes]

Never buy space balls, make your own. When you open a tube of silicon caulk, take what's left and squeeze out a 1/4" ribbon on wax paper. When dry, cut ribbons into 3/8" lengths. You could pin the panel thru both top and bottom rails at center point, and forget the space balls..

I pinned them as well through the tenons on the rails. It puled through the pins. The minor damage was caused removing the pins. A little sanding, I doubt it will be noticeable. Its on the rear/inside of the door.

Dealing with max humidity here right now. I think some of this is due to gluing end grain to edge grain. Would CA glue be better?

 

[chris_goris]

I pinned them as well through the tenons on the rails. It puled through the pins. The minor damage was caused removing the pins. A little sanding, I doubt it will be noticeable. Its on the rear/inside of the door.

Dealing with max humidity here right now. I think some of this is due to gluing end grain to edge grain. Would CA glue be better?

http://blackbridgeonline.com/insertion1-4.htm

 

[Jeff]

Dealing with max humidity here right now. I think some of this is due to gluing end grain to edge grain. Would CA glue be better?

What did you use, TiteBond X, Y, or Z? Heavens, no CA or epoxy glue for a standard straightforward door with a floating panel!

 

[JimD]

It seems the issue is you allowed 1/8 for wood movement but the maker of space balls says you need 5/16 space to use it's product. So you were 3/16 off. That was enough to cause the glue to fail.

While we can handle parts glued up with Titebond after an hour, it doesn't fully cure for 24 hours. It should have held if you left it in clamps for 24 hours but the doors would have bulged in the middle and you would have had to trim them.

I have never used spaceballs and I've built a lot of raised panel doors (an entire kitchen, a house full of interior doors and other stuff). My panels are almost always a little warped versus their frame. Not enough to make assembly difficult but enough that the panel doesn't slide around. I finish the edge of the frame and the panel before assembly but then put another coat on after assembly. That helps to stick the panel in place. If it slides around, which is rare, a pin from the back side will normally stick it. If it can move enough for the edge of the panel to show, I put a shim cut from scrap on one side so that doesn't happen. A space ball would probably be better for this. But normally I don't need anything.

To me a space ball is a solution to a problem you probably did not have. Unless the panel wants to move around in the opening I see no reason to use one. The only strong reason to use one is if the panel is a bit small and the edge of it can show when it shifts around. Even then there are simple alternatives.

But I suspect that if you had allowed the recommended 5/32 per side they would have worked fine. Glad to hear you fixed the doors.

 

[NOTW]

This thread has nothing to do with the movie :rotflm:

 

[FlyingRon]

This thread has nothing to do with the movie :rotflm:

My wife was upset that I finally changed the garage door combination to something other than the one I have on my luggage (without telling her).

 

[Pop Golden]

When I first started working for Klingspore here in Charlotte a few years ago. Someone came in and asked for "Space Balls". I thought they were joking. I don't use them in my cabinets and never heard about them. I have used them since and they are a good product.

Pop

 

[tdukes]

What did you use, TiteBond X, Y, or Z? Heavens, no CA or epoxy glue for a standard straightforward door with a floating panel!

I used TiteBpnd III