Setting up DC

[striker]

I'm in the process of setting my shop up...again. My shop space is a two car garage with an attached 10x16 shed space. I'm fixing to place my 2.5 hp Penn State industries cyclone in the shed space although I'm concerned with the noise generated annoying the Neibs. Just wondering if there are thoughts on noise control. I was thinking of exhausting to the open air and not messing with the supplied filters.

On another note. I know by placing the unit outside the shop space I'm creating an issue with make up air but I was figure by cracking the garage door a couple inches that would remedy the issue.

Well, I thought I'd throw it out there and maybe you guys been down this road already.

Thanks, Stephen

 

[ehpoole]

Just to add some food for thought, the filter can provide quite a bit of sound muffling versus open air discharge. As such, if noise is your primary concern then you may wish to reconsider losing the filter. A lot of the noise is turbulence created at the impeller and with a straight discharge path to outdoors the noise will be loudest in whatever direction you aim the exhaust. You could build your own muffler for the DC, but it will likely cost you much of your gains in CFMs and SP that losing the filter would have gained you. If you do elect to remove the filter, do direct the discharge outside the shed as you do not want the fines accumulating in an enclosed space.

That said, removing the filter from the equation with a straight and uninterrupted path outdoors can gain you some extra CFMs and/or SP, if the noise is acceptable.

Just remember that a cyclone will only discharge the very finest (and most unhealthy) of dust particles, so if discharging open air then it is important to ensure that there are no windows for some distance to either side and no other sources of air intake (such as an HVAC air exchanger) within range of the discharge or you can severely pollute indoor air -- this includes any nearby neighbors if they happen to be nearby and downwind while it is running. It is also worth considering that the outdoor discharge will leave your shop negatively pressurized and that makeup air will have to come from someplace, possibly drawing back in the fine dust you have just discharged (particularly on days with little wind to disperse the fines). On the positive side, most of our shop tools do not produce a lot of fine dust if their cutting edges are kept sharp -- it is sanding that is the worst offender by far, so if you do not use the DC to capture sanding dust then your fine particle emissions will be much lower than if you do use the DC to capture those fines.

You will still want to be vigilant to avoid overflowing your waste bin since such would result in a buildup of flammable sawdust next to your house (if you do overflow, just cleanup any accumulation near the house).

If you condition your indoor shop air (heat, a/c, dehumidifier) then you will be exhausting that air and quickly, very quickly, replacing it with unconditioned air from outdoors, which may cause dramatic swings in humidity and temperature in an otherwise well conditioned shop. This is only a concern for conditioned shops as unconditioned shops will already be reasonably close to ambient conditions.

Regardless of what you decide to do with respect to discharge, I am very much a proponent of moving DCs and shop air compressors into an interior, sound dampened, closet or exterior shed if the opportunity permits as it eliminates a lot of noise from the shop and frees up some wall and floor space. Just don't let their remote location lull you into forgetting to perform regular maintenance (especially emptying the waste bin frequently). Unfortunately, my DC and compressors all reside in my shop as I don't have a suitable location to relocate them!

Just my $0.02.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

If you condition your indoor shop air (heat, a/c, dehumidifier) then you will be exhausting that air and quickly, very quickly, replacing it with unconditioned air from outdoors, which may cause dramatic swings in humidity and temperature in an otherwise well conditioned shop. This is only a concern for conditioned shops as unconditioned shops will already be reasonably close to ambient conditions.

I know Charlie (who does exhaust his air outside) has refuted this idea several times.

 

[ehpoole]

I know Charlie (who does exhaust his air outside) has refuted this idea several times.

He is welcome to refute as he, or anyone else, wishes. The reality is you do not draw 500-1000 cubic feet of air per minute into your shop from the great outdoors (the only place for your makeup air to come from) and maintain a stable conditioned shop environment. It is literally no different than opening a window wide open, setting a box fan in that window and turning it on high in the middle of winter and expecting your shop to maintain a nice stable warm temperature and humidity for hours on end.

If your shop is heated or air conditioned, or dehmidified, how long did it remain a comfortable working environment the last time you left the garage door wide open? It is no different.

If your winter heat source is predominantly IR then you can cheat a bit as the air will be cold but the IR will warm you provided you are within line of site...but most of us do not heat our shops with IR heaters...and they don't make an IR air conditioner! The only other way to get around the physics is to have a heater or air conditioner so oversized (and inefficient) that it can heat or cool an extra 500-1000 CFM in real time, but that is no free lunch as you are going to take a nice hit on the next utility bill.

 

[Jeremy Scuteri]

A few things that come into play are the fact that the dust collection system is not run all the time and there is a lot of "thermal mass" in your shop. Lots of cast iron that does not lose all of its stored energy by quickly and momentarily exchanging the air in your shop. Of course there will be some effect, but it may not be as dramatic as one may think.

 

[Charlie]

I have a 36" wall fan in my shop. I would never consider opening the windows and turning on the fan in the middle of the winter. I know what would happen. The shop "air" would be cooled down immediately. But, the thermal mass of the equipment, walls, floor, ceiling, cabinets, etc. would not cool down immediately. Once the windows were closed and the fan shut off, the room "air" can be brought back up to temperature very quickly.

But, when I am working at my lathe, I have two HF blowers (approx. 12-1500 CFM total) exhausting directly outside. The makeup air inlet is located about 5' from the dust pickup points at the lathe. I am only changing the air from point A to point B. I am not changing the total 8000 cubic feet of air in the shop.

I may have been wrong for doing this for the past 24 years, but I have been very satisfied with the results. There is no noticeable temp change in my shop.

I still say (and no one will ever change my mind) that if you can discharge the dust/chips diectly outside without affecting neighbors, etc., that is the best possible solution. I have no cyclones, no filters and nothing that I have to clean or empty.

As for cleanliness, I will put my shop up against any other shop.

 

[scsmith42]

Charlie, please don't use my shop as a comparison for yours when it comes to cleanliness and organization! I would lose by a mile.... I will also admit that your dust extraction system works extremely well.


Scott

 

[CrealBilly]

Charlie, please don't use my shop as a comparison for yours when it comes to cleanliness and organization! I would lose by a mile.... I will also admit that your dust extraction system works extremely well.


Scott

Yeah but... not everyone has a dust collection system like yours that would suck hemroids out of a 400 lb man fully clothed :lol