I have just started woodworking. I ordered some wood from a dealer and picked it up this weekend. I wanted approximately 150 board feet of 4/4 with S3S since I do not have a jointer. My expectation was the wood wood be flat, and I would rip one side on my table saw and be able to glue up some panels for my project. Instead what I have seen from many of the pieces are twists and bows and un-flat wood. Was my expectation incorrect? It is possible the 2 sides parallel like they have gone threw a planer, but they are not jointed flat. Now I have 3/4 inch wood that would need to be jointed or used with a planer jig to get flat. In addition, I do not have enough wood for the 3/4 inch thickness I wanted.
S2S with straight line rip
- Thread starter mtaustin20
- Start date
Mike,
It would help to know how much bow and twist you are seeing. I do not have a big jointer so I often just plane both sides of boards. They come out fairly flat, say typically 1/4 inch or less deviation over 10 feet, sometimes a bit more. If it is more, I try to cut it up into smaller pieces so I can still use it. For something like the top of a dresser, part of my current project, I will select fairly flat boards and count on the glueup plus fastening it to the base to pull out any remaining lack of flatness.
For a door I do try to use my jointer first because any lack of flatness will be apparent. It will not be fastened to a cabinet to pull it flat. But sometimes I use part of a large board that has just been planned two sides. But when I do that, I look for a piece that came out pretty straight and flat.
Small amounts of flatness I consider normal. Big variations create much more of a challenge and the wood becomes potentially unusable. Another thing to consider is that wood changes shape some with moisture level changes. It can be milled flat, lay around for a few days, and become non flat. It moves. It moves even after finish is on it.
Whenever I glue up a large top I put biscuits of domino tenons into the joint to pull the pieces flat to each other. It is possible to do this manually as you tighten clamps but I find glueups kind of stressful so I simplify when I can. Domino tenons work better than biscuits but both help.
I suspect your wood was planned on both sides, not jointed and then planned. It takes a big planner to effectively joint the face of a long board. I have also found it challenging to get 3/4 inch wood out of 4/4 rough sawn when I joint first. Part of that is my technique but part is the fact the rough saw wood is pretty non flat, presumably because it moved while drying.
Jim
It would help to know how much bow and twist you are seeing. I do not have a big jointer so I often just plane both sides of boards. They come out fairly flat, say typically 1/4 inch or less deviation over 10 feet, sometimes a bit more. If it is more, I try to cut it up into smaller pieces so I can still use it. For something like the top of a dresser, part of my current project, I will select fairly flat boards and count on the glueup plus fastening it to the base to pull out any remaining lack of flatness.
For a door I do try to use my jointer first because any lack of flatness will be apparent. It will not be fastened to a cabinet to pull it flat. But sometimes I use part of a large board that has just been planned two sides. But when I do that, I look for a piece that came out pretty straight and flat.
Small amounts of flatness I consider normal. Big variations create much more of a challenge and the wood becomes potentially unusable. Another thing to consider is that wood changes shape some with moisture level changes. It can be milled flat, lay around for a few days, and become non flat. It moves. It moves even after finish is on it.
Whenever I glue up a large top I put biscuits of domino tenons into the joint to pull the pieces flat to each other. It is possible to do this manually as you tighten clamps but I find glueups kind of stressful so I simplify when I can. Domino tenons work better than biscuits but both help.
I suspect your wood was planned on both sides, not jointed and then planned. It takes a big planner to effectively joint the face of a long board. I have also found it challenging to get 3/4 inch wood out of 4/4 rough sawn when I joint first. Part of that is my technique but part is the fact the rough saw wood is pretty non flat, presumably because it moved while drying.
Jim
Jim,
Thank you for your reply. The wood I purchased was quartersawn. I wanted to keep movement to a minimum. I was just trying to determine what expectations to have when purchasing wood. There was enough twist in a few pieces where I could not glue up 2 feet to make a panel. Others are cupped where I would need to remove a 16th on each side to be flat.
Thank you for your reply. The wood I purchased was quartersawn. I wanted to keep movement to a minimum. I was just trying to determine what expectations to have when purchasing wood. There was enough twist in a few pieces where I could not glue up 2 feet to make a panel. Others are cupped where I would need to remove a 16th on each side to be flat.
What you described, Mike, is exactly why I always go to the lumber store and select my own boards. I know this may not always be possible, but if there is any way you can arrange it, this is by far the best option, at least in my view.
Not knowing anything about your supplier I can't say what they may or may not have done w/ your order. I suspect when your order came in they sent someone from the warehouse out to pull that many board feet. If they had just opened a fresh bundle you might have received nice, straight, flat boards. On the other hand, if that bundle had been there awhile, then it had probably been picked over by others and all that was left were the dregs. The order filler picked enough boards to fill out your order and threw them on a cart. Unfortunately, that's the way it often goes when you order something sight unseen.
Just to be fair, there are some suppliers who will go out of their way to select the best quality for these orders. If you find one, stay w/ them.
Not knowing anything about your supplier I can't say what they may or may not have done w/ your order. I suspect when your order came in they sent someone from the warehouse out to pull that many board feet. If they had just opened a fresh bundle you might have received nice, straight, flat boards. On the other hand, if that bundle had been there awhile, then it had probably been picked over by others and all that was left were the dregs. The order filler picked enough boards to fill out your order and threw them on a cart. Unfortunately, that's the way it often goes when you order something sight unseen.
Just to be fair, there are some suppliers who will go out of their way to select the best quality for these orders. If you find one, stay w/ them.
It’s hard to know without seeing the pieces as you received them, moisture content, grain pattern and storage. For instance: is this an example of internal wood tension, intra-wood differential moisture content, or selection problem? It is not unusual for me to joint and plane dried wood and find that it twists or turns after dimensioning. A minority of pieces become unusable because presumably they have internal tension. Often, with patience and re-dimensioning I can get to a reasonable spot. I suggest reading “Understanding Wood” for a more comprehensive discussion.
I guess in your situation, I would communicate with your dealer and discuss the outcome and expectations. Hopefully you can work something out. If possible, I would look to pick your rough lumber for them to initially dimension. Check the properties of the rough wood for twists, irregular grain patterns, whether the pith is included, and the saw pattern (flat-sawn, etc.).
one extra point: you mentioned cupping and twisting. For cupping, I think of differential drying on one side of the wood. This can sometimes be corrected by placing the wood cup down in the sun. Twisting is a problem that Is harder to remedy in my experience.
I guess in your situation, I would communicate with your dealer and discuss the outcome and expectations. Hopefully you can work something out. If possible, I would look to pick your rough lumber for them to initially dimension. Check the properties of the rough wood for twists, irregular grain patterns, whether the pith is included, and the saw pattern (flat-sawn, etc.).
one extra point: you mentioned cupping and twisting. For cupping, I think of differential drying on one side of the wood. This can sometimes be corrected by placing the wood cup down in the sun. Twisting is a problem that Is harder to remedy in my experience.
When ordering S2S from a lumber supplier, it in no way means the lumber will be delivered flat. It merely means it has been surface planed on 2 sides. Add SL1E and its merely tablesaw ripped on one edge. I tend to order all my lumber this way when doing a large job to save planer time. Did they not ask what thickness you wanted it ROUGH planed to?. I typically tell them 7/8 for 4/4 stock and depending on what Im making, narrower boards to mitigate any cupping I may see so I can deal with it as needed. When I receive the lumber, if I am making large, wide panels I will pick through and select the best ones for that purpose and glue them up , knowing I have a full 1/8" of material left. Even when buying S4S material (finished at 3/4") , it in no way dictates it will be flat , straight and no wain to deal with. It IS wood after all and once you start cutting it, all bets are off.
Actually, a lesson on why solid wood is not always the best cabinet construction.
As mentioned, wood is wood It may look great in the store, but get it home, change humidity, it may change. Now I have a "real" band saw, I will be exploring true veneer, as in 3/16, or more over core.
As mentioned, wood is wood It may look great in the store, but get it home, change humidity, it may change. Now I have a "real" band saw, I will be exploring true veneer, as in 3/16, or more over core.
Cupping isn't OK. It cannot have been in the board when it went through the planner or it would still be rough in the center on one side and outer edges on the other. So it got wet after it was planned, probably on one side. If you have access to a moisture meter I would check it. A gentle twist might make it through the planner but I take it as a sign that it wasn't a good board - or it could also be a result of getting wet on one side after it was planned. It also might not have been dry when it was planned and moved as it dried further. It sounds like definitely something went wrong. I would take some pictures and contact the supplier. If they are honest, the least they will do is offer replacement. Wood does these things but suppliers that supply wood this way should make good on it.
Hope I do not make anyone mad at me but I am going to disagree, at least a little. If you ordered wood S4S that is what you paid for and received. A planner is not made to flatten wood. You can flatten wood with a planer but it is slow and a little tedious. When I was still making furniture I never bought wood over 6" wide. I had a 6" jointer and knew I would need to rip it before flattening it. Steve Wall loved to see me because he new he would get rid of a lot of narrow boards. I never understood why almost everyone wanted wide boards. For one thing they are just plain heavy.
I have tried all of the remedies detailed above with a little but not a lot of success.
I would call the supplier and bare your soul. He may trade it out for you. I actually bought 30 boards of the wrong kind of lumber one time and the supplier let me swap them out.
Do not beat yourself up. A lot of use, including me, have made this mistake. When I made it someone said call it a thickness planner because this is what it really is.
I have tried all of the remedies detailed above with a little but not a lot of success.
I would call the supplier and bare your soul. He may trade it out for you. I actually bought 30 boards of the wrong kind of lumber one time and the supplier let me swap them out.
Do not beat yourself up. A lot of use, including me, have made this mistake. When I made it someone said call it a thickness planner because this is what it really is.
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