Power VS Hand

[chris99z71]

Amen. When I tell people that I like to go camping, they think I'm nuts. After people started living in huts, how often do you think they said, "hey, lets go back to the cave for the weekend" ? Same idea with HT vs. PT.

But that's the beauty of woodworking - it has so many different aspects that attract different people. But regardless of your own personal preferences, you can still respect the work of Norm Abrams AND Roy Underhill.

 

[rickc]

I've been following this thread for some time and can't resist putting in my 2 cents. Not to be taken as criticism of anybody's pursuit of this very enjoyable hobby.

My Webster’s dictionary defines “hobby” as “a pursuit outside one’s regular occupation engaged in for relaxation.” The key word here is “relaxation.” Whether one is able to relax by producing something using only their bare hands and a crude set of tools or by using every power tool known to man, is, IMO, irrelevant. The idea is to relax and enjoy the hobby.

I think you made an excellent point. The hobby should be for enjoyment. If you are in business, then you have other considerations. Personally I get a "kick" out of doing something by hand occasionally. It is a skill not everyone has, or even wants, but it just feels good to do it - emphasis on OCCASSIONALLY. On the other hand, most of my projects use power tools. And I feel good about that too! My aim is to have one compliment the other for the best project I can do.

 

[Jonz]

I don’t know how to plow a field with a mule and a single tine plow. I also don’t know how to hitch a horse to a buggy. I have other, more efficient and faster ways to plow my garden and get from point A to point B.

I have faster, more efficient ways to get vegetables than growing them. :lol:;-) I kid, I kid.

I agree for the most part. I like doing some joints with hand tools. I enjoy the challenge of it, and there are many times where I come out on the bottom end of that challenge. But ripping, stock prep and most else, I'm cranking up something with an "on" button.

 

[DavidF]

All good points by everybody. How about if you had that field to plow, the tractor wouldn't start, but you did have a mule - wouldn't you be glad you could plow the field anyway? just this once?

Please don't get me wrong, I use PT's a lot! however; my point was regarding the idea that we MUST have all these PT's to make anything and along the way have noticed the notion that even as hobbyists we need to save time by having multiple routers already set up and multiple band saws so that we don't need to stop and change blades and even faster ways of setting/unsetting the tension on our bandsaws. I have known over the years several woodworkers who have aquired all the "toys" but still produce very poor work because the fundamentals of joint making or marking out have not been mastered. Do we all still mark the face side and edge with the traditional marks so that we square of the correct sides as we go round? - I still do even when using a jointer and TS etc it still has a place today along with some of the other practises like scoring a shoulder so that the chisle has a reference etc, not mortising to the line first time because of fiber compression - all these skills are still relevent today, but never mentioned in articles based around PT's

 

[sapwood]

What a fun and interesting thread!

I have plowed a field with a team of mules and participated or watched my parents and grandparents survive in a distinctly different environment (agarian). The resources available to us are truly amazing and I'm grateful for them. However, to me this is mostly about self reliance. When the tool broke (plow, wagon, tractor, or hand tool), it could easily be 50 miles to repair/replacement location but the need was immediate. I greatly admired my father because he could, as the neighbors say, "fix anything". His crude kludges/fixes lacked elegance, but he always came up with a way to get the job done. Using tools, both power and hand, utilizes creativity and inventiveness to develop self reliance.

For many of us who are hobbyist, the process is what matters. For those that make a living woodworking, the product is probably more important.

Thanks for splitting this up Steve, so I could ramble on :-D

Sapwood

 

[DavidF]

For many of us who are hobbyist, the process is what matters. For those that make a living woodworking, the product is probably more important.

Thanks for splitting this up Steve, so I could ramble on :-D

Sapwood

Sapwood - you have it, at least for me anyway! from the design through the final build and beyond I enjoy, in fact if truth be told, sometimes by the end of the project I hate the dam thing because it's been so hard trying to maintain that quality I strive for. Sometimes it's months after that I sit back and look at it and say "not bad, not bad...for a beginer"

*edit by Greg Dake 11/2/05 to fix the quote

 

[woodguy1975]

Lets Teach Each Other

I think a solution for our group here is to teach each other. Lets arrange classes open to NCwoodworkers to learn such things as hand cut dovetails, hand cut M&T, Hand planing, shaping, finishing, carving, design, etc. Why don't we form a schedule of classes that is taught by a volunteer. This is a forum where we exchange information to help. Let's get together and help each other develope our skills. We can grow as a community. It would be something never done before for a forum board like this.

Everyone by now knows that I have one of the stocked shops on the board, but I am just as likely to go to a hand plane, scraper, or spokeshave as I am head to a sanding machine or jointer when time allows. Machines make life easier and help save time when I do professional work, but they do remove part of the craft that goes into the peice. The guys who have seen my chairs have seen what handtools can be done with time and hand tools. I get frustrated at folks who live by their pocket screw jigs instead of learning to do proper M&T. Pocket screws are fine for cabinetry but don't belong in fine furniture. Trust me, I've used my fair share, but when I am given the time I use M&T. Polyurethane is another good example. Poly is great for floors, but shouldn't be put on fine furniture. You'll never see a pocket screwed polyurethane piece in a museum. Lets build for 200 yrs instead of 20 yrs.

There are so many things that we can teach each other. I think it would be a great idea to have a class schedule. Not only will we learn something, but it will give us to opportunity to get together in person every once in a while and put a face with a person.

What do you think?

 

[sapwood]

Re: Lets Teach Each Other

I think a solution for our group here is to teach each other. Lets arrange classes open to NCwoodworkers to learn such things as hand cut dovetails, hand cut M&T, Hand planing, shaping, finishing, carving, design, etc. Why don't we form a schedule of classes that is taught by a volunteer. This is a forum where we exchange information to help. Let's get together and help each other develope our skills. We can grow as a community. It would be something never done before for a forum board like this.

Edit

There are so many things that we can teach each other. I think it would be a great idea to have a class schedule. Not only will we learn something, but it will give us to opportunity to get together in person every once in a while and put a face with a person.

What do you think?

Grand idea :eusa_clap

For those willing to teach, I willing to learn. To date, my limited skills have come from books and "trial and error", mostly error :lol:

Part of the strength of NCWoodworker is our geograpical commonality, largely in regional "clumps" as I look at the member list. Your suggestion "dovetails" nicely with that :roll:

Personally, I would like to learn techniques about basic stuff, such as how to use hand tools and how the heck to properly setup my TS, BS, and other power tools. Ummhh, my list goes on and on--but I'll stop here for now. :eusa_whis

Knowledge "empowers" one. :slap:

Sapwood

 

[Phillip]

this really is a great thread. woodguy's suggestion sounds good, i love the slower pace of classes to my day to day rushing around. as to the question at hand, i do make my living working wood and i reach for a hand tool whenever i possibly can. the process is as important as the finished piece for me. besides, you can't hear the radio when the router is on. just my two cents.

phillip

 

[DavidF]

Well, I've started something now:eusa_doh:

WG that's a great idea. How about a list of things people would like to have a look at and then find one of us that has a good enough grasp of the techniques to show somebody else. I am sure we have members who are proficient in DT's, M&Ts, sharpening, plane tuning, scraper sharpening etc.

 

[DaveO]

I wholeheartedly agree with Woodguy suggestion and David F's also. I think that would be a great way for people to learn from those who are more experienced and just hang with people with common interests. I don't know where it would be put, but a list of any specialities members have or skills they can teach would be a great resource. Also things that people could share to help the greater communtiy. Like for example I would love to check my jointer with a reliable straight edge, but for that 5 minutes, I can't justify the costs, so if there was someone in my area that would be willing to help me adjust my jointer, that would be great information to know. Just another idea to toss around. Dave

 

[Jay]

woodguy,

I for one think it is a great idea. Of course I don't know enough to teach anyone anything but would be willing to learn. Love the idea of learning from someone who knows what they are doing instead of just trying to figure it out from articles and books. I would definitely be interested in hand tools and anything else for that matter.

 

[DavidF]

I have started a new thread under "other stuff" called "members skills and needs"

 

[cskipper]

I have really enjoyed this thread. I really only have basic knowledge of a lathe, table and band saw and scrollsaw so I could learn a bunch from you guys. DH teaches me a lot but it's always good for more perspectives. I'll try to get pictures of the handcut DT's he made on the workbench he's working on. They are awesome. Again, great discussion.