New storage building

[Ragtimeman]

Hello all;

My "woodworking shop" is now 12' x 25' or so, which is half of my garage that I partitioned off some 14 years ago. It works well, but I have ran out of room, and feel like I'm trying to work in a shoebox at times. I've decided I need a storage building to move some items into, and use for wood storage too. I've decided to make it 16' x 16', and want to run a water line to it as well as 120V power. I'm in upstate SC, so don't have some of the water line freezing problems that some of you no doubt have.

I have some other activities that I'm involved in, like lapidary for example. I'm thinking I could move my ongoing rock tumbling projects into it, and hence the power and water requirements. All this will free up some space in my shop to hopefully enable me to build it up some, and allow me to add some power tools, such as a bench planer and whatever else I can think of. I'm sure I'll come up with plenty.

I'm trying to decide what the best place is to start. Are there some plans available, free, online for this size building, or some that I could modify in size? What would be best and cheapest, pouring a concrete slab or maybe just using a row of concrete block around the perimeter, with some center posts, and fastening the floor to that?

It may be that I could use this building for a spray booth, or other finishing activities too. And, my wife can use something to store her outdoor plants in the winter in it, too.

Any thoughts? All will be most welcome.

John

 

[scsmith42]

Hi John.

If it were me, one place that I would start is by looking at various "garage" kits that are sold by either local builders or building supply houses. They have the advantage of having PE Stamped drawings, and the local authorities usually approve them w/o any problems. Additionally, they are usually optimized design wise for being the most efficient from a price / size perspective.

There are a lot of companies that specialize in "garage building" that my be able to provide you with a package for not much more than you could do it yourself.

Personally I prefer concrete for flooring (I like heavy things...), but it's usually more expensive than wood.

Re your electric service, rather than just running a 120V line consider either installing some conduit (so that you can easily pull larger wiring later if you need more juice), or pulling a 240V circuit. I have a number of outbuildings with power and it was not much more expensive for me to run a 10/3 with ground UF to them and install a small sub-panel, as opposed to a single 12/2 UF run. It's nice to have a little extra power available, "just in case" you decide to do some other things with the building long term.

 

[Joe Scharle]

I agree with Scott. I've seen these 'packages' on sale cheaper than individual components. Pull 240V to the shed. 240V has a far greater distance reach than 120V. Then you can split out 120V in the shed's panel for lights and 120V receptacles and still have 240V capability if needed.

 

[gator]

I agree with looking at garage packages. My shop was a 16 x 24 garage package. I modified it by deleting the overhead door (I wanted wall space) and adding additional windows (basically a price wash). I did all the work myself. I ran electric underground and installed a sub-panel for power (I have 2-240v circuits and 6-110V circuits with room for expansion). I prefer wood flooring (easier on the feet and knees) and was basically lucky as I had a 3' drop in grade from diagonal corners so moving a lot of dirt to level a place for concrete as going to be WORK. I set mine on concrete piers and as a result I had a crawl space as well as a wood floor.

Pictures here:

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=6

George

 

[Ragtimeman]

Great ideas guys! Keep 'em coming!

The kit / package sounds like the way to go. And I like the power recommendations too. I'll use the 240V idea for sure. I plan to do all my work on it, too.

Gator, I really like the photos of your shop. I may just have to move my entire operation, build it 16' x 24', and leave the 12' x 25' current shop as my storage or something. Depends on the wallet.

Wood floors being easier on the legs is a consideration for me too, but my wife thinks that concrete might be better with the water that I'll get somewhat sloppy with. She knows me well.

John

 

[JimmyC]

The garage has concrete floors, could you do the lapidary stuff in there and use that area for other stuff while making the outbuilding strictly for wood working ?

I have a concrete floor and use many rubber mats (which help on the feet and back), but I would go with some sort of wood floor if possible for comfort. I also recommend at at least a 60amp 240v service, it should serve you well. While the building is being built add wall insulation, as it's extremely hard to do after tools are in it. Don't forget an air conditioner outlet on it's own circuit. If you don't go with a garage sized door (not really needed), try to find, or make, a 4' wide door as it will be much more convenient than a 3' wide door for moving large items around in. Try to get natural lighting in, but don't lose all of your wall space ( basement hopper windows used high on the wall are cheap and one way of doing this). Make sure you run as many outlet plugs as possible, in the end you still won't have enough anyway. Think about areas for an air compressor and dust collection system. Finally, I know that you said 16' x 16' but definitely build as large as you can afford because it will never be large enough.

That should help confuse you enough for now :gar-La;.

Good Luck,

 

[Ragtimeman]

Thanks again guys for all the input.

I have some additional questions, and thoughts -

Gator, I really like the looks of your shop.

I've received a quote from a contractor for a wood floor building as follows:

-Leveled on 8" block with solid cap cinder block
-2 x 10 floor joist, 16" OC
-3/4" Advantech flooring (whatever that is)
-2 x 4 studs, 16" OC
-4 each 24" x 36" windows
-1 each 36", steel six panel passage door with hardware
-1 each 72" steel double outswing door with hardware
-7/16" OSB roof sheathing with 25 year 3 tab shingles

options:

-with vertical T-111 panel siding

size - 16' x 24' - $8,762
size - 16' x 32' - $11,682

$22.82 per sq. ft.

-with vinyl lap siding to match house (excludes boxing) (what does this mean?)

size - 16' x 24' - $9,878
size - 16' x 32' - $13,170

$25.72 per sq. ft.

I have a second contractor who told me over the phone, but no documented quote yet, that he could build this for me on a concrete slab for $17 per sq. ft. How can he be that much cheaper?

The concrete would have some advantages from a weight consideration.

Whatever I do, I want to run a trench for power and water soon before I start construction. I have an electrician friend that will wire the whole building for me, free. My son in law will do the plumbing.

Any additional thoughts?
What is avantech flooring?
can the concrete slab building be that much cheaper?

John

 

[Splinter]

John,

Builders Discount has Garage Workshop Packages that are reasonably prices with pre-built trusses delivered to site. Complete package - lumber, 9 x 7 garage door, 6 panel metal door, windows, singles, nails, trusses and blueprint. Flooring/foundation not included.

I don't think they are in SC but have 11 locations in NC.

16 x 24 with 4 x 8 siding - $2695 - vinyl siding $2899
24 x 32 with 4 x 8 siding - $3895 -vinyl siding $4199
24 x 36 with 4 x 8 siding - $4195 - vinyl siding $4499

Many others sizes available.

I have no affiliation.

 

[gator]

I used the Builders Discount package but didn't mention it before because they are not in SC. As to the cheaper price for being built on a slab. I think that he may not have mentioned (and I may be wrong) that the slab would be your responsibility. Concrete slabs are not cheap.

George

 

[Ragtimeman]

Gator;

Since my last post, I talked to the contractor again. He assures me that he can build me a building, with slab, for $17 per square ft but that is for just the basics. He described the process to me, talking about how he would do the footers, foundation etc, and has me convinced that he has a complete slab package. He also told me that he would have to have a load of fill dirt brought in to raise the level so that the whole thing will be to code. I really can't tell you any more detail as I have nothing in writing. He's on his way to Ohio for the weekend, and won't be back until Monday night, and I just talked to him by phone.

He did tell me that if I go smaller than 16 x 32, he would have to charge me $18 per sq ft. And, his basic building is a garage, no windows, side door, or anything. All these are add ons. His price structure is based on:

-16 x 24 ft building, 384 sq ft at $18 per = $6,912
-6 windows at $250 each = $1500
-36" walk in door = $300
-building permit = $200
-load of dirt = $300
-soil treatment for termite control = $200

total package = $9,412

So, all told, 9412/384 = $24.50 per foot, which is about right, I guess.

Then, comparing apples to apples,

16 x 24 building on concrete slab, vinyl siding = $9412, $24.50 per sq ft, or
16 x 24 building, wood floor, all finished, vinyl siding, = $9878, $25.72 per sq ft

Now it sounds about right to me.

John

 

[scsmith42]

If you go with a concrete slab that requires fill dirt, be sure that it is incredibly well compacted and that the top soil is removed before the fill dirt is installed. This will help prevent cracking later on.

 

[Ragtimeman]

Good thinking on the fill dirt, Scott.

I've been thinking too that since the slab should be considerably more money than the wood floor, these shouldn't compare in price. So, I called another contractor last night, and he is going to price it both ways. He's going to let me do some of the work too, which will help in price. I have about 10 vacation days that I need to use up before the first of the year and can't afford to go anywhere anyway, so may as well take them and work on the building.

It will be interesting to see what prices he comes up with.

John

 

[Ragtimeman]

Gator;

Just curious. Did you insulate the floor of your building? I'm thinking it would be easier to do before everythings in place or something.

John

 

[gator]

Gator;

Just curious. Did you insulate the floor of your building? I'm thinking it would be easier to do before everythings in place or something.

John

Yes I did. I used the stiff wires that hold insulation batts up and put them in, laid the batts on top and then nailed down the sub-floor.

You're right, its better than laying on your back in a crawl space trying to hold batts up.

George

 

[scsmith42]

John, you didn't ask... but I'll tell you anyway!

I also insulated underneath the concrete slab on my new shop building. It has radiant heating in the floor (which is worth considering if you will be spending a lot of time in the shop), and the insulation helps a lot.

Scott

 

[Ragtimeman]

thanks George and Scott for the insulation advice.

Another question. My son in law thinks we can save some money by just having a contractor build a shell, and then cutting the openings for windows and doors with a skil saw or sawzall or something ourselves.

This sure makes sense to me as a way to save some money. I'm still thinking about a wood floor, which I'm told needs to be off the ground 21" for termite control.

Does cutting the openings ourselves sound reasonable?

John

 

[JimmyC]

Cutting the windows later is possible, but there's more to it than just cutting an opening such as framing for the windows and doors, you are going to have to redo the framing with extra studs and headers. If you can get the contractor to do the framing without charging too much, you might be okay but I kind of have my doubts.

Good luck with what you choose,

 

[Ken Massingale]

John,
We had a new shop built last Fall by a local contractor. It's 24 by 36 with a 12' lean-to on one 36 foot side, with concrete floor. 9 foot ceilings, 16 foot rollup door, (mistake on my part) 5 windows and 2 walk in doors. It's on a concrete slab which is on 2 foot deep footings with 3 rows of rebar in the footings. The slab was insulated from the ground and has 2 layers of concrete wire inside. It's finished on the outside with housewrap and vinyl siding to match the house. The studs and bottom 4' of exterior ply is pressure treated.
The price for this was $17,500.
I then did the wiring and had the insulation for the walls and ceiling done. I purchased the sheetrock and had it installed and sanded ready for me to spray. The contractor suggested that I sub the insulation and sheetrock since he would get the same material and installers and add some profit for himself.
Then ,and today to some lesser degree, contractors are looking for work. I think material is somewhat less now that last Fall.
HTH
Ken

 

[CrealBilly]

Why not by an old house for a dollar, disassemble it and reassemble it on your property? :gar-La;