My first attempt at Dust Collection

[wolfsburged]

This is still a work in progress, but here goes:

Got this "2" HP Harbor Freight dust collector for Christmas. Decided I wanted to do something about the dust down in my basement workshop. Not much in the way of ventilation down there except one exterior door. Read up on the dust collection stuff, Bill Pentz's web site, etc. Got overwhelmed! Read all of the arguments about hose vs PVC vs metal pipe and cyclones vs single stage vs shop vacs. I ended up deciding that I didn't have the cash to do a full on Pentz approved 6" ducted cyclonic super collector, but did decide to try out the lower entry cost single stage dust collector.

So, that leaves me with this single stage collector and some tools that have either no collection ports, or 2.5" ports.

For my table saw, a contractor style '50's Craftsman, I placed it on a tool stand with a piece of plywood on the bottom, cut a hole and mounted a 4" dust collector port.

I decided to build a Thien baffle trash can pre-separator to keep the debris in the easily emptied trash can rather than plastic liner.

For now I am still using the stock bag filter. I have an oddly laid out basement shop where the floor steps up on one side, and I chose to put the collector over there out of the way. This however gives me a height restriction that prevents a full on filter setup. I think eventually I will just port the exhaust of the collector outside via one of the nearby basement vents.

For piping I had a heck of a time finding all of the pieces to fit together. I am using SCH 35 drain PVC pipe (the green stuff, bought from Lowes) and associated white PVC fittings. These are pretty nice in that the 90s are long sweeps.

I bought some fittings online that said PVC to Dust collector hose but they turned out to be for SCH 20 and didn't fit. I did find however that a standard 4" dust collector hose coupling will be a very tight fit into the 4" PVC pipe directly with a little rubber mallet persuasion. I am using that method to go from PVC to hose directly out of the Thien baffle. Other places I am using the aluminum blast gates to go directly from pipe to hose. The other nice thing about using the green PVC pipe and the 4" hose coupling is that the PVC to the hose coupling is not going anywhere, don't need glue or screws, it is solid! But I can twist the green pipe out of the white PVC fittings with some effort - enough that I can make "quick connects" in that fashion.

I ran the piping down low below my bench and made use of some of the odd features of my basement to keep it out of the way. The trash can is connected direct to the piping with a small piece of pipe and I can pull the can sideways and remove the top to empty.

I modified a wye fitting to do some rudimentary dust capture on my belt sander. I still need to make some improvements there, but it is attached such that it rotates with the belt to allow use in vertical or horizontal sanding.

I ordered a 250' spool of bare 18 gauge copper wire from Home Depot to ground the pipe system. Still need to make some minor tweaks on some hose lengths, fix a few leaks around the trash can inlet/outlet fittings, etc. I have the dust collector on a remote control device which works well.

Realizing that I won't capture all dust at the source, I also have a ceiling mount fan/filter that I need to get hung in place too.

Here are some photos:

 

[JimD]

Looks good! I had a similar setup in my old shop and it worked well to collect debris. I got fine dust I did not like, however, which would cling to the plastic pipe, possibly because it was not grounded. I switched to a cartridge filter which seemed to help some but I was not satisfied with the rate the filter would clog. I made a paddle cleaner which helped some but it still needed to be blown out more than I wanted to do it. I plan an Oneida dust deputy for the new shop whenever I get time to set things up. I will put the DC outside and what the cyclone doesn't get can just to the yard. At least that is my current plan.

If you also have more fine dust than you want, you could always add the cyclone at that point.

 

[SubGuy]

Dust Collection is just like power tools, you buy your way up until you are either out of money or out of space to put it.....then you get a bigger shop and start over. Basically as Jim stated, you fine tune your DC until your happy with your fine particulate dust levels.

 

[Danny Batchelor]

Bill,
Very good discription of all you have done in a very short time. I like the photos as well; particularly the gizmo you have on your vertical sander. What is that?

 

[Michael Mathews]

Bill, I believe you have your piping backwards on your Thien baffle. The DC should be drawing through the center pipe and the dirty air flowing into the baffle on the edge pipe. The dirty air scrubs the side wall of the can and falls to the bottom. Also, the suction pipe coming out of the baffle should be centered. As you have it, the dust will make a circle then get sucked back out of the baffle.

You're welcome to come see mine in chapel hill. I get 99.9% of my dust into the Thien!

 

[Henry W]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

....particularly the gizmo you have on your vertical sander. What is that?

I have attempted a similar retrofit for my (similar) 6x48 stationary sander (usable in either vertical or horizontal mode. Hard-mounting the adapter is something I need to do, as the "friction-fit" approach only goes so far.

I definitely like your design and implementation. Any further detail you can provide on how you mounted this, and how well it works, would be appreciated.

I used a metal rectangular HVAC floor register. It works ok, but as I said, I need to mount it more solidly. The biggest issue I see is that too much dust stays 'entrained' along the surface or near surface of the belt and moves along the bottom/return path of the belts (and then back at me!); note that my sander is most often in the horizontal position not the vertical. It has helped to use a Harbor Freight bench brush there (just beyond the drive roller, just in contact with the belt and across the width of the belt), but again I need to find a means of mounting this brush more securely. It is also likely that the inadequate airflow in my 'system' contributes to the less than adequate (but better than nothing) performance.

Great post Bill. Keep the details and DC strategies coming.

Henry

 

[PND]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

I agree with vtxmanmike that the pipes in the Thein baffle appear to be reversed, according to what I read of the fixture. Excellent post and pictures.
Phil

 

[tarheelz]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

In addition to being flipped, I would expect that with the exhaust pipe near the edge, rather than the center, you are extracting more heavy particles than would be optimal.

The challenge of course is that you probably didn't want to lose that nice handle in the center of the can!

 

[junquecol]

Like the DC for sander. Probably steal it for my shop. Before you do anything to modify you Thien Baffle, google or search here "Another vote for Phil Thien's baffle." This will take you to FIRST Top Hat Design, with which you don't loose half your can capacity

 

[wolfsburged]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

I have attempted a similar retrofit for my (similar) 6x48 stationary sander (usable in either vertical or horizontal mode. Hard-mounting the adapter is something I need to do, as the "friction-fit" approach only goes so far.

I definitely like your design and implementation. Any further detail you can provide on how you mounted this, and how well it works, would be appreciated.

I used a metal rectangular HVAC floor register. It works ok, but as I said, I need to mount it more solidly. The biggest issue I see is that too much dust stays 'entrained' along the surface or near surface of the belt and moves along the bottom/return path of the belts (and then back at me!); note that my sander is most often in the horizontal position not the vertical. It has helped to use a Harbor Freight bench brush there (just beyond the drive roller, just in contact with the belt and across the width of the belt), but again I need to find a means of mounting this brush more securely. It is also likely that the inadequate airflow in my 'system' contributes to the less than adequate (but better than nothing) performance.

Great post Bill. Keep the details and DC strategies coming.

Henry

The parts are:

A 4" 45 degree PVC Sewer Drain Wye, Lowes #24126:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_24126-676-4P08_0__?Ntt=24126&UserSearch=24126&productId=3609588&rpp=32

A 4" PVC Sewer Drain Cap

Two small sections of 4" SCH 35 Sewer Drain Pipe approx 2 and 3" long.

I cut a "T" shape cutout on the wye fitting so that I could slip it over the belt, on the opposite side of the wye leg. I attach it to the belt sander with an L bracket that I mounted on the left side and a single machine screw on the bottom right. This mounting on the right is drilled and tapped into the portion of the rotating assembly so that the fitting stays in place as it rotates. I will take some further photos later this weekend to illustrate.

I had to trim the right side ring where the PVC pipe would slip fit in order to leave room to reach the bolt to loosen/tighten the sander assembly for movement, and to clear a support gusset at the bottom while rotating.

On the left side I used the cap and a short section of pipe to block off that end of the fitting. The L bracket is attached to the sander with a machine screw which I drilled and tapped a hole for. The screw on the fitting side goes through the white PVC fitting and green pipe. It is very rigid with only two mounting points.

I was planning on putting some sort of brush on the back. I was thinking a thin brush like you might see on the side of a garage door, but a bench brush or any other handy item ought to work. I am also considering trying to enclose more of the front to reach further up to catch more. Still tweaking and fine tuning this.

 

[wolfsburged]

In designing the baffle, I did want to retain the handle on the lid which is why the exhaust is not in the center. However I'm not really sure that there is a huge advantage there as the exhaust is still very close to the inlet stream in that case. My inlet stream is pointed more towards the can wall rather than tangent with the inner circle, if that makes sense. Idea being to drastically slow down and turn the air stream.

I have thought about adding a partition vertically at the end of my sweeping cutout on the lower plate to block airflow from continuing around to the exhaust port.

For now in the limited testing I have done, I have not seen any accumulation in the lower bag of the dust collector, so it is working at least ok. But have not put a lot through the system yet.

Still have some leakage points to fix too and a few hose sections to shorten.

Thanks for all the input and feedback!

 

[Danny Batchelor]

Thanks for a very good verbal description. I look forward to the pics.

 

[wolfsburged]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

The parts are:

A 4" 45 degree PVC Sewer Drain Wye, Lowes #24126:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_24126-676-4P08_0__?Ntt=24126&UserSearch=24126&productId=3609588&rpp=32

A 4" PVC Sewer Drain Cap

Two small sections of 4" SCH 35 Sewer Drain Pipe approx 2 and 3" long.

I cut a "T" shape cutout on the wye fitting so that I could slip it over the belt, on the opposite side of the wye leg. I attach it to the belt sander with an L bracket that I mounted on the left side and a single machine screw on the bottom right. This mounting on the right is drilled and tapped into the portion of the rotating assembly so that the fitting stays in place as it rotates. I will take some further photos later this weekend to illustrate.

I had to trim the right side ring where the PVC pipe would slip fit in order to leave room to reach the bolt to loosen/tighten the sander assembly for movement, and to clear a support gusset at the bottom while rotating.

On the left side I used the cap and a short section of pipe to block off that end of the fitting. The L bracket is attached to the sander with a machine screw which I drilled and tapped a hole for. The screw on the fitting side goes through the white PVC fitting and green pipe. It is very rigid with only two mounting points.

I was planning on putting some sort of brush on the back. I was thinking a thin brush like you might see on the side of a garage door, but a bench brush or any other handy item ought to work. I am also considering trying to enclose more of the front to reach further up to catch more. Still tweaking and fine tuning this.

Profile view - L bracket on left

Cutout with room to swing wrench

Horizontal mode

Bottom screw. Note it is into the part that rotates.

Here you can see the profile I cut out. The top as seen here is what mounts on the left side of the sander by the L bracket. The bottom as seen here is clearanced on either side to allow a wrench to reach the bolts to move the sander between horizontal and vertical. The overall end was cut down as well to clear the ribbed support while rotating.

Back side

Watch out and make sure you have clearance for this! I forgot the first time when mocking up for horizontal and had to cut out a bit wider than I'd like to allow a slight rotation in overall mounting to clear this in vertical setup.

 

[wolfsburged]

Here is my table saw with dust collection added. It is a ~1956 Craftsman 10" model 113.27520. I have two cast iron extensions for it and it runs nicely. I don't have the blade guard for it unfortunately.

Since it was never set up for dust collection I have done a few things to try to catch some of it. First I have it on a tool stand with a piece of plywood enclosing the bottom. I have a hole cut in the bottom with a dust collection port attached. I used cardboard to try to enclose the back of the saw as best I could. I am thinking of finding some magnetic sign material to use on the front to cover the slot where the handle sticks out to adjust angle.

I just got this filter/fan unit and hung it in the shop to try to filter any of the fine dust that doesn't get captured.

Have the miter saw hooked up as well. Not sure how effective the collection will be simply due to the nature of this tool, and the hose size reduction, but we will see.

 

[Henry W]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

BIll: Excellent - that is exactly the sort of detail I was looking for.

I do wonder if your tight clearance on the belt (both top and bottom) allow enough air flow through the duct. I think I would allow for at least an 1" gap on the top side to catch more dust and allow higher air flow.

I am pondering how to catch the dust that gets through and moves along the return path of the belt. I am considering a shallow box along that return path and maybe a bench brush at each end in side the box to scrub the belt a bit, but I haven't worked out the details.

Thanks,
Henry

 

[Charlie]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

Bill and Henry W,

The dust pickup on the sander is great. Very similar to what I did on my 70's Craftsman.
1st photo shows the pickup.
2nd photo shows the slide gate box so I can choose between the belt or disc. It is very difficult to do both simultaneously.
3rd and 4th photos show the hood that I installed. This hood captures any particles that may miss the pickup opening, because of trajectory, and direct them into the opening.
4th photos show the 1/2" gap between the belt and pickup.
5th photo shows where I installed a piece of wood on the inside of the pickup to close off the gap between the pickup and the underside of belt. Make the piece oversize and let the belt sand it to final size.

I have my sander hooked to a shop vac instead of my dust collection system. (My shop vac is located under my shop).

When trying to collect fine dust that is traveling at a high rate of speed, you need air velocity (FPM), not volume, (CFM). The high velocity will clean the dust off the belt before it can move along with the belt and drop off underneath. I get virtually no carry over on the underside of the belt.

(Henry, close up the gaps and your carry over will be reduced/eliminated.

Photo #5 shows the area under the belt. There is no visible dust and I have no idea when, if ever, I cleaned that area.

Bill, Your dust collection on the table saw is a good start. Check under the top and you will probably see that there are openings between the under side of the top and the saw cabinet because of the webbing under the cast iron top, at least in the front. Close these openings. You want all of the air flow to pull down around the saw blade and through the openings around the handle in the front. I even installed some 1" foam on the inside of my old Craftsman and cut a slit so the shaft of the handle could move as required.

I have a 12" Grizzly jointer. I know of two people that had the same jointer and got rid of them because they couldn't collect the dust/shavings. I can joint all day long and have very little shavings that don't get collected. I accomplished this by closing off all the openings and gaps, using foam rubber and magnetic sign material. Most all of the dust collection air is pulled in around the cutter head.

If you want excellent duct control, close up the gaps and openings. Direct the moving air through the desired point of dust pickup.

My shop is always open to anyone that would like to come for a visit and see first hand how dust collection can work.

 

[wolfsburged]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

Charlie,
Thanks for the photos. I like the pickup box. I will probably end up doing something similar, and probably adding a brush to the rear as well.

Definitely will be trying to improve the table saw. I hadn't thought about the underside of the table and sealing there. I will look into that. The idea of foam behind the handles is also a good idea. I would think something rather thick and dense would be best.

I intend to use the shop vac for any smaller tools that have collection ports, such as my sanders. It is a rather small vacuum, and only has the 1-1/4" hoses. I find the filter clogs up very quickly on it. Not sure if a small dust deputy would be worthwhile or not for it.

 

[Charlie]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

Bill, Yes thick and dense on the foam. I used some 1 1/2" seat cushion foam. Glued it to the inside if the saw.

 

[Henry W]

Re: stationary belt sander - Dust collection?

Excellent Charlie - thanks.
I'll have to work on these fixes. Lots of great ideas in this thread.

Henry

 

[LeftyTom]

Well done, Bill. Your first effort is a few steps of my first go at dust collection. Keep in mind that anything that makes for less sweeping (and less breathing of dust) is good.