Metal Building for Shop - Looking for Advice

blazeman45

Steve
Senior User
Has anyone erected an all metal building for their shop? I am likely going that route due to costs but condensation is a major concern for me. I am having the slab poured over plastic to provide a vapor barrier there. I plan to let the slab cure for approximately 6 weeks before I have the building installed. I am planning to use bubble insulation on walls and ceiling and finish the interior with 1x6 T&G.

That’s my plan... anyone have one that can provide some pre-planning insight? Thanks as always!

Steve
 

tvrgeek

Scott
Corporate Member
Bubble insulation? You mean highly inflammable packaging? Or that almost useless thin stuff from the big box store?

Even in our mild climate, use real insulation. Unless you are zoned ag only, you still need to meet code which is R15 in most places for the walls and 36 ceiling. All that money for T&G could get you fully insulated and sheathed with 1/2 ply on the walls and sheetrock ceiling so you can hang anything anywhere. You would need to rock under the T&G anyway to stop infiltration. Don't forget to insulate at least 4 feet around the slab with 2 inch minimum. Then hose it all down with cheap white paint. All those natural wood shops may look nostalgic, but when it comes to getting work done, crap. As you age, even worse.
 

Woodmolds

Tony
User
I have two metal shop buildings. (One is VarcoPrudin 40" X 80"X 12' eaves, the other is Aliance 60' X 50' x 16'eaves) Both have the roll insulation put on as the outside skin in put on. One building has 1" ceilings and walls and the other one has 2" ceiling and walls insulation. I've never had a condensation problem in over 20 years. One building was heated in the winter, but not now as it is not used that much as a work area only storage. We lined one with 1/2" ply 8' high and the other has metal 7' high. The metal liner is pretty economical. And at the time was cheaper.

BTW the insulation is white vinyl face.
 
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Oka

Casey
Corporate Member
Don't use the bubble insulation, use the fiberglass type (R-15 or 19 walls and R-30 or 38 ceiling) that is a roll with white pvc plastic on it. If you are so motivated and do not care abut the cost you can install TYVEC type material (spun olefin) 1st - to isolate the insulation from the inside of the building.

Bigger point to consider -if the building is not there yet you may want the manufacturer to weld punched hole angle clips on the column steel to make it easier to attach wood on them should you decide to frame the internal wall over the girt system. Otherwise you either are shooting it on (not so good choice ) or you are drilling a bunch of holes. On metal buildings remember Annular drill bits are your friend and 1st choice. It will save a lot of labor and time.
 

TBoomz

New User
Ron
I have a Morton metal building. My father ordered it, after his wood workshop partially burned. The slab cost him $12,000. The building cost close to that. My brother and I helped Dad to put it together. We used no cranes - put the I-beams up using scaffolding and block & tackle.


One issue I have with the insulation under the roof [no drop down ceiling]. It's VERY noisy when it rains. Even if there's just a light mist outside - inside it sounds like gravel is being poured all on the ceiling. Drowns out sound of machinery. I usually don't work in my shop when it's raining. Insulation is spray-on foam [hired out] under roof [ceiling] and all walls. Figure it's about 1.5" thick and possibly closed cell foam - looks like shiny plastic. I use a shop fan in summer. It has a ridge vent and windows.
My brother put 4" batting in his ceiling - can't hear a drop [rain] and heats with propane.

We put up 3/4" plywood walls on inside [no further insulation behind] Electrical connections were placed on outside of plywood...would prefer that they had been put behind plywood.
I use an infrared heater in winter - heats just me.
 

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
Disagree. Plywood at $45/sheet and $12/sheet drywall would have cost me roughly the same as the 1x6 pine shiplap I just finished installing. Throw in mud, tape and paint and it's the same money. Not to mention the PITA to install and paint.

I bought three bundles (240 boards each) for $2.80/ board. That was roughly $2100 for the lumber plus another $100 for the nails. I installed directly to the studs.

My natural walls may be crap but they look awesome. To each his own I guess......

All that money for T&G could get you fully insulated and sheathed with 1/2 ply on the walls and sheetrock ceiling so you can hang anything anywhere.


All those natural wood shops may look nostalgic, but when it comes to getting work done, crap.
 
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Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
Disagree. Plywood at $45/sheet and $12/sheet drywall would have cost me roughly the same as the 1x5 pine shiplap I just finished installing. Throw in mud, tape and paint and it's the same money. Not to mention the PITA to install and paint.

I bought three bundles (240 boards each) for $2.80/ board. That was roughly $2100 for the lumber plus another $100 for the nails. I installed directly to the studs.

My natural walls may be crap but they look awesome. To each his own I guess......
I know it does look nice. I used pine t&g in my bench room.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
metal building ... pre-planning insight?

Make sure you consider flammability of all the materials you intend to use. Most insulation materials burn very rapidly. Paper backing on fiberglass burns, and all plastics and foams have very low ignition temperatures and are great fuel for lighting up your entire shop in just a minute or two. Drywall and mineral wool are the exception, so get an understanding of your comfort level with fire before making a final decision. Woodworking materials and processes are high risk for fire, so the code [NCBC 903.2.11.7] requires any woodworking shops >2,500 SF to have an automatic sprinkler.

Then make sure your building fabricator gives you clear details for how they plan or recommend insulation, drywall, and cladding. These complicate the envelope construction considerably and the building you get likely won't support any extra weights. They should already have all these details, so just ask. NC requires a thermal gap between metal skin and purlins these days, but you won't get that if you get an ag building.

Technically, any building used as a woodworking shop is required to have a permit. Agricultural buildings are strictly for farming, but metal building manufacturers often sell farm level buildings that don't meet any wind, seismic, or snow loads required (and expected in NC) by the code for occupied buildings. I recommend documenting a permitted structure intended for human occupation so they price the proper steel gauges and lateral resistance support. Obviously, this makes them cost a lot more, but their web sites often won't tell you that unless you ask.

Verify your insurance policy agrees with all these decisions or you won't be covered if it blows over or catches on fire (or worse).

The next level of analysis involves figuring out conditioning, condensation, and dew point strategies, since exposed metal thermal bridges will sweat a lot in winter depending on how you heat and cool. (Natural gas, for example, has very high water content.) Cooling equipment and ducts sweat all over everything in the summer. If humidity matters, most pre-manufactured buildings leak air like a sieve unless you specify an (expensive) air control layer that usually needs an additional substrate (plywood) for proper installation.

If you really aren't worried about fire, then check out pre-manufactured wood buildings, often called "pole barns." They'll usually have 8x8 posts down each side, connected by a beam, with pre-manufactured light wood trusses set free span across the entirety for the roof. They can be surprisingly large but are usually a little cheaper than metal buildings. They make more sense for smaller buildings since they don't have to resist as much wind or snow load. And they are easier to insulate since you don't have the thermal conductivity/bridging of the steel. Wood columns actually resist fire a little better than steel ones, but wood trusses will burn in a minute.

Sorry this is long, and I don't mean to be a naysayer. I'm actually working on an agriculture building and a shop building project right now, but have been finding so many regrettable building decisions that lock buyers into buildings that are inflexible or insufficient for purpose. Just do your research and you'll be fine.
 

SteveHall

Steve
Corporate Member
I meant to include a reference on insulation that I forgot, so I'll extrapolate a little more here...

The current NC energy code: NC Energy Code, 402.
  • The top numbered columns are NC's three climate zones, as mapped at 301.2 (scroll down to map).
  • The next row relates to commercial versus residential (Group R).
  • Then the rows are divided up into major categories of building component... roofs, walls, floors, etc.
  • "ci" means continuous insulation—insulation NOT interrupted by structure such as framing, that greatly diminishes the effectiveness of insulation.
  • value + value means continuous + non-continuous, implying both are required. A semi-colon implies multiple options are available. Continuous insulation is an age old concept just now actually making it into the building code after many decades of science.)
  • Metal building roofs are required to have min. R-19 continuous outside the frame, up to R-25 with only R-8 between the framing members (Climate Zone 4).
  • Unfortunately, metal building walls are not required to have continuous insulation walls in NC, but see the IECC below for the min. R-13 requirement before politicians intervened.
  • See note a for required metal buildings thermal spacer block (anti-thermal bridging). I once calculated that a single 16d nail transfers about 31.2 BTU/(FT Hr °F), the equivalent energy of maybe a 2 SF wall area of good spray foam insulation.
For better than code or anyone not in NC, here's the International Energy Conservation Code (IECC) that NC and most other states are based on before lobbyists tear it apart: IECC 2021 402.1.3.

There are murmerings that the current Federal administration may step up efforts to prevent states from continuing to do this in the interest of saving real energy. Regardless of the law, I always encourage my clients to build better than code because A) saving energy to 5-year payback levels is pretty easy; B) stops air quality problems like mold and dust infiltration; C) codes are going to continue to improve because they are currently so poor; D) resale; E) eventually energy code requirements will be enforced, and about 99% of the building stock will fail the current standards. Really, the current state is shambolic. Few buildings could pass the 0.4 CFM/SF at 75 Pa requirement. Air control and pressure testing is technically required (IECC 402.5.3), but I've never had an AHJ even mention it.
 
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Rwe2156

DrBob
Senior User
Wow, someone has some in depth knowledge.

Has anyone priced out a sprinkler system? Had a friend with an auto shop he said it was $1000's.

If its not a commercial building you still need it? Around here, if you're zoned agriculture, you can build any metal building you want, just call it a storage building.
 

tvrgeek

Scott
Corporate Member
All in the code.
Ag buildings, if they have electricity, still must meet the electrical code. I think you need electrical permit even if ag. At least in my county.
If no HVAC of any kind, I do not think the insulation rules apply, but a wood shop needs controlled humidity at the very minimum and boy, a controlled 4 seasons shop sure is sweet.
 

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