Melamine help

[Bas]

Whether you pronounce it mela-mean or mela-mine, the stuff has a lot going for it. Stiff, flat, cheap and slick. But, it's not easy to fasten fasteners!

I'm trying to build an outfeed table, I'm tired of using the roller stands. Given the limited amount of space in my shop, I want to make a hinged flip-down/ flip-up table. It will have some fold out legs for support. Nothing fancy.

One complication is that my fence rides on a rear rail. To get around this, I plan to make a "shelf", out of melamine as well, 4" wide. I'll attach this to the saw with a piece of angle iron or aluminum. See picture below.

There will be three pieces of aluminum (left wing, center, right wing), attached to the saw via bolts. I can for the most part use the holes that attach the rear rail to the saw, I just need to drill two extra holes to make sure every piece of aluminum is fastened with two bolts. For the picture, I just mocked things up with some duct tape

The 4" shelf will be attached to the three pieces of alumium. See picture below:

(yeah, it's sagging on the right -this is a duct tape mock-up remember. I don't do sketchup very well :icon_scra). Anyway, this gives the fence the necessary space to move freely.

I want to attach the main table (44" x 36") to the shelf via hinges.

Question #1: How should I attach the angled aluminum to the shelf? Sheet metal screws? McFeely wood screws? Bolts and T-nuts would probably be best (particle board doesn't hold very well), but then I have a bunch of holes in the shelf. Not ideal when it has to be a smooth slick surface.
A variation would be to route a 1/8" rabbet on the underside of the shelf, epoxy in a 3/4" wide strip of aluminum into the rabbet, and then use screws through the aluminum into the particle board. That ought to hold it, but as you can tell, I'm a duct tape kind of guy. There's got to be something better.

Question #2: I originally planned to use a piano hinge. But as before, I'm worried about little screws holding in particle board. Some ordinary door hinges could work if I used T-nuts and bolts, but then I have holes again. Any ideas on how to get a piano hinge to work?

 

[toolferone]

I would go with a counter sunk bolt through the top into the angle. MUCH stronger!> If you do it well the the screw will be just below the surface.

 

[Gotcha6]

Get some S4S metal screws with a countersunk head. Countersink your holes thru the top & drill them right into your aluminum (or thin steel) angle. These type screws are used primarily to attach drywall & plywood to heavy gauge metal studs & should do very well on melamine. Just keep 'em away from the edge of the piece - but you know that already.
Any reason you couldn't double up on the edges and use regular door hinges mounted below? This would let you use 1-1/4" wood screws for the hinges & removable pins would let you release the table if you needed to.

 

[sediener]

Bas,

whatever you do, keep it away from baby formula.

What about using something like a gate hinge? I agree that the piano hinge might not be beefy enough.

 

[SRhody]

Bas,

My recommendation: build a small ledge extension (6-12 inches) attached as already described, with either legs as in my example or with supports attaching to the frame of the TS. I used melamine with a white oak trim to match the other 'growths' on my saw.



On my saw the ledge gives me about 3 more square feet of surface and protects the motor.

The ledge with this support can then handle the larger hinges and weight of the flip up extension.

 

[Bas]

I would go with a counter sunk bolt through the top into the angle. MUCH stronger!> If you do it well the the screw will be just below the surface.

Get some S4S metal screws with a countersunk head. Countersink your holes thru the top & drill them right into your aluminum (or thin steel) angle. These type screws are used primarily to attach drywall & plywood to heavy gauge metal studs & should do very well on melamine. Just keep 'em away from the edge of the piece - but you know that already.

If I'm going to have to make holes in the top, I like the bolt idea. Should I ever need to remove it, a bolt and nut should be easier, and stronger. But great point on the S4S metal screws, if it can hold drywall to metal studs, it will certainly hold melamine.

Any reason you couldn't double up on the edges and use regular door hinges mounted below? This would let you use 1-1/4" wood screws for the hinges & removable pins would let you release the table if you needed to.

Now that is a brilliant idea. Doubling up on the edges will make things a lot stronger, and I can use beefy screws. I especially like the removable pins idea, suddenly assembly seems a lot simpler!

Bas,
What about using something like a gate hinge? I agree that the piano hinge might not be beefy enough.

OK, point taken, piano hinge is out. A gate hinge is a good idea, gives you far more surface area to attach things. I still like the idea of doubling up better, but I'll keep that in mind.

Bas,

My recommendation: build a small ledge extension (6-12 inches) attached as already described, with either legs as in my example or with supports attaching to the frame of the TS.

I was hoping to avoid legs on the ledge, since it makes the construction more complicated, and when I want to move the saw, I need to either fold them away or adjust the feet or something. Even better than aluminum angle would be steel shelf brackets, something with a brace. But they'd have to be pretty small. Time for another trip to the hardware store.

I do like the hardwood edge, I think I'll put something nice around the melamine. Haven't used the biscuit machine in a while

Great ideas all - thanks!

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Bas,

My recommendation: build a small ledge extension (6-12 inches) attached as already described, with either legs as in my example or with supports attaching to the frame of the TS. I used melamine with a white oak trim to match the other 'growths' on my saw.



On my saw the ledge gives me about 3 more square feet of surface and protects the motor.

The ledge with this support can then handle the larger hinges and weight of the flip up extension.

Bas,
For much the same reasons, this is what I did for my 10in Jet Contr saw:

Features include:
-Beveled Front/Leading edge (avoids ripped wood from catching)

-Oak Frame and Legs (very strong and sturdy for supporting long and heavy board ripping).

-Cheap er..Inexpensive Table Leg Extensions.

-1/4 20 bolts and nuts

The Frame bolts onto existing holes on wings. Folds under and through the motor and can still sit flush against the wall, minimal space!

BTW, my saw is on caster and can be moved around easily.

Hope this helps
Matt

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Oh and Bas,

Im also in Cary(close to NC Scroller), if you want to stop by and check out. Im currently between positions so pretty much anytime works for me
Matt

 

[Bas]

Thanks Matt! I may just do that. Not sure if your table design is compatible with my saw, but it's a good excuse to meet and get a shop tour

 

[Bas]

Any reason you couldn't double up on the edges and use regular door hinges mounted below?

What sort of glue should I use to bond melamine-to-melamine? Would melamine-to-plywood be a better choice?

 

[JimD]

I've purchased melamine glue before, it was a thin white glue and worked but if you smacked the pieces you could fracture it. I wouldn't recommend it.

The rails on my BT3100 have grooves which makes attaching an extension table to the rails a lot easier. Mine clamps and slides off. I use a brace back to the saw rather than a leg to support it. It is only about a foot wide, however. My closest equivalent to a bench sits behind that and is about 1/4 inch shorter than the saw so it works well to support off-cuts. For narrow pieces, up to a couple feet wide, this arrangement works well. For wider pieces, sometimes it droops out where there is no bridge to the bench.

Hardwood biscuited or even just glued and screwed to melamine both helps durability and gives you something stronger to fasten to. My BT3100 has a very small table surface as delivered but I have large extension tables made of melamine. In this case it has edges of plywood along with ribs underneith to help keep it flat.

Jim

 

[Trent Mason]

Bas,

Like I always say, if you can't duck it......... oh, wait. :nah:

If you can't affix it with duct tape, get online and ask NCWWer. :rotflm:

Looks like you've gotten some great advice. Matt, that's a great setup you have there. Can't wait to see what you end up with. :icon_thum

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Thanks Matt! I may just do that. Not sure if your table design is compatible with my saw, but it's a good excuse to meet and get a shop tour

Your welcome over anytime, PM me when your ready to visit.

 

[Gotcha6]

Like I always say, if you can't duck it......... oh, wait. :nah:

If you can't affix it with duct tape, get online and ask NCWWer. :rotflm:

I think what Trent is trying to say without being 'moderated' is, the only tools you need are duct tape & WD-40. :gar-La;

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Bas,

Like I always say, if you can't duck it......... oh, wait. :nah:

If you can't affix it with duct tape, get online and ask NCWWer. :rotflm:

Looks like you've gotten some great advice. Matt, that's a great setup you have there. Can't wait to see what you end up with. :icon_thum

Thanks, Oh BTW another use for Duct tape (my wife likes this one):

:rotflm:

 

[fdfrye]

Hey Splint,

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything...but I have the same saw and am interested in building a similar outfeed setup as you have. But I also have another question: I just switched to the powertwist belt like you...how did you know how tight to make it? I kinda tried to hold the links against the old belt and make it similar, but I think the new belt is much tighter. My system seems to vibrate less, but it also seems to be louder...kinda high-pitched...wierd.

 

[Splint Eastwood]

Hey Splint,

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything...but I have the same saw and am interested in building a similar outfeed setup as you have. But I also have another question: I just switched to the powertwist belt like you...how did you know how tight to make it? I kinda tried to hold the links against the old belt and make it similar, but I think the new belt is much tighter. My system seems to vibrate less, but it also seems to be louder...kinda high-pitched...wierd.

I think I can answer that question/issue. Sent you a PM, in order to take off this thread!

Matt