Looking for someone to help me design and install my dust collection - happy to pay

[Carl Fisher]

I'm getting tired of worrying about my health breathing in all the junk in the shop and ending up with everything in the shop covered in dust and debris.

I have a few pieces ready to go, but when I start to try to wrap my head around the various fittings, routing, etc... I just get lost and can't seem to get any clear direction. I'm looking for someone in the Charlotte area who might be willing to spend some time helping me figure out what I need to purchase still and then ultimately help me install everything. I can pay cash, pizza, beer, etc... you name it.

What I have:
16x24 shop with 9' ceiling and attic
Harbor Freight 2hp unit
A bunch of 4" and either 5" or 6" snap lock 5' duct sections
A few cheap plastic 4" blast gates and a few cheap plastic 2" blast gates
A woodcraft "cyclone" dust lid for a 30-gallon trash can and a metal can
Rikon ceiling air filter

My goal is to put the motor up in the attic to vent outside so I'm not worried about upgraded bags or filters, just that I capture as much as I can in the garbage can before venting it. I need 2 drops somewhere down the center line of the shop and several along either outer wall. My primary need is for my 3 lathes, sanding stations, drill press and bandsaw. One of the central drops would need to pull from a tablesaw/router station and be able to be rerouted to a planer/jointer as needed but I use those last 2 so rarely that it's barely even a concern.

Anyone up for it?

 

[KenOfCary]

You probably know this but Oneida (click the ad on the right) has a lot of design help for DC Systems on their website, including complete design services. Another good resource for DC ducting systems is Penn State Industries. I got most of my fittings and blast gates, etc from them when I upgraded my system.

 

[sawman101]

It shouldn't be too hard Carl. I went to Lowes and bought 4" sewer pipe, Y's, unions, and the metal hanger tape, (don't recall the correct terminology) in a roll. From Klingspors I bought the clear 4" hose, hose clamps, blast gates, reducers, etc. Starting at your collector head, run the pipe down the center of your ceiling, and put in a wye every place you will want to make a connection to a machine. Using piope and elbows, route to a convenient distance near the machine, carefully glue in your blast gate, then connect from there to the machine with the clear flex hose. I use the plastic pipe primer and cement for all the connections that are vertical, but not on the horizontal sections, so they can be pulled apart in case of blockage, or for modifications. You'll also need special collectors for your lathes, but for the drill press, I don't use any collection at the press, instead I installed floor sweeps, which you'll probably want at least 2; they're cheap, and simple to install, but need to be against something immovable, like the wall. Good luck with your project, but I don't think I'd want that blower up in an attic. Might be far better off to build an enclosure outside the building, large enough for the DC.

 

[Carl Fisher]

You probably know this but Oneida (click the ad on the right) has a lot of design help for DC Systems on their website, including complete design services. Another good resource for DC ducting systems is Penn State Industries. I got most of my fittings and blast gates, etc from them when I upgraded my system.

Understood but I've tried to piece this together a half dozen times and really just looking for someone local who can hand hold me a bit. Every time I start researching I get lost down the rabbit hole of pipe sizing, flow requirements, etc... Was just hoping to find someone willing to mentor me a bit who can look at the shop, what I have on hand and guide me in how to move forward.

 

[bobsmodels]

Carl

I wrote up an article on this topic. It has a lot of how to, you might want to check it out. It is in the "Q" to be placed in the download section. But I have a link in the thread to it. There are 30+ pages of information and pictures of installation and hook up

http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59329

Bob

 

[tri4sale]

My goal is to put the motor up in the attic to vent outside so I'm not worried about upgraded bags or filters, just that I capture as much as I can in the garbage can before venting it. I need 2 drops somewhere down the center line of the shop and several along either outer wall. My primary need is for my 3 lathes, sanding stations, drill press and bandsaw. One of the central drops would need to pull from a tablesaw/router station and be able to be rerouted to a planer/jointer as needed but I use those last 2 so rarely that it's barely even a concern.

Anyone up for it?

Sorry too far for me to be able to help, but I can offer a suggestion. For the "as needed" runs I would suggest going with a Rockler Dust Right Expandable hose and wall mount. When not in use, the hose contracts back to 3ft (or 2 or 4ft depending on which you get) When need you pull off wall and connect to tool with a Quick Release connection. simplifies the number of runs you need to make.

 

[JimD]

All I can offer is some advice. First, recognize that DCs pull poorly against resistance. They max out at about 12 inches water iift. Shop vacs will lift 50-99 inches. That is why you want to use big slick smooth walled pipe when possible. At least 4 inch and 6 inch would not seem to be too big for what you describe. It isn't that it won't work with small pipe or long runs of flex hose but the airflow will be a lot less. If you install a limited run of 5 inch and then 4 inch, I would run the 5 inch close to the DC and try to hook it to things like a CMS hood which need lots of airflow.

I wouldn't put the DC in the attic unless you have a good way to get a full dust drum out of the attic. Lids for trash cans are poor separaters so you'll blow lots of dust outside. A super dust deputy would remove a lot more (but isn't cheap) A thien separator would be better than a can lid. You could try the can lid and see if it works for you. The good thing about DC setups is the main cost is the DC. Pipe and gates are relatively cheap and usually recyclable. So you can put something up, see how it works and move things around if you are not pleased.

 

[KenOfCary]

Sorry too far for me to be able to help, but I can offer a suggestion. For the "as needed" runs I would suggest going with a Rockler Dust Right Expandable hose and wall mount. When not in use, the hose contracts back to 3ft (or 2 or 4ft depending on which you get) When need you pull off wall and connect to tool with a Quick Release connection. simplifies the number of runs you need to make.

I also like the Rockler Dust Right system. I now have permanent drops for the jointer and planer but used to use it for both of those as well as the band saw and belt sander. Now I only use it for the drum sander which doesn't yet have a permanent drop. When not in use there is is attached to a floor sweep and can be attached to a 4" vacuum head for quick clean-up. I even got a second shorter hose for clean-up around the lathe. The lathe has its own small dust collector and bag.

 

[Carl Fisher]

I'm curious why the aversion to placing it in the attic? No matter where it lives, there will still need to be a fairly tall vertical run somewhere in the mix to get up to the ceiling. I'm not against building a small overhang on the back of the shop and put the unit outside but that just adds to the noise outside for when I'm working late in the evening which could be a point of contention. At least in the attic the noise is contained inside while still not being in the shop itself.

I have enough 6" to run the length of the shop and enough 4" for branches off the trunk. Unfortunately that seemed to be the cheapest part. The fittings seem to get silly expensive. For example a 6" through with two 4" Y is $50 for one fitting. You can see why I don't want to over or under buy for something if it's not right. https://www.pennstateind.com/store/R-CLAT64.html

I'll start looking at some of the design tools like Oneida again and see if I can figure it out. I'm not sure what fittings are compatible with the PSI snap lock pipe besides their "economy" fittings. i.e. will Rockler fittings work as well or Oneida, or whatever.

 

[KenOfCary]

Your snap lock ducting and PSI's low cost line should be fine with a 2 to 3HP system. If you get up to a 5HP System then you need to look at spiral ductwork and higher cost fittings. I found some inexpensive 6x6x6 wyes and some very nice 6 to 4" reducers at Lowes. They are leaky and have to be coated with the rubberized ductwork caulking which is very cheap to use.

When I ran my new ductwork for the new DC i used all 6" pipe for the main line and the branches off it. I didn't go down to 4" until right before the blast gate and flex hose to the machine. This (plus a 2HP versus 1.5HP DC) seems to be working very well.

If you were closer I'd offer to show you what I used. It is a combination of PSI drop packages and Lowes snap lock pipe and wye's.

 

[JimD]

I think you will find fittings for plastic pipe cheaper than fittings for metal. The piping doesn't need to be grounded so the plastic works fine. 6 inch S&D is not available in home centers around me but it is apparently available at plumbing supply places. 4 inch S&D with fittings is available in home centers where I live.

With plastic pipe and fittings I would just slide it together, no glue. With metal I would put a screw or two in and tape the joint. In both cases, you can take it apart and reconfigure it. You will loose some pipe but not the fittings.

 

[tri4sale]

The piping doesn't need to be grounded so the plastic works fine.

Unless you run a CNC machine, then sometimes the static can mess with the signal and cause issues.

 

[Carl Fisher]

Unless you run a CNC machine, then sometimes the static can mess with the signal and cause issues.

I figured for my CNC I'd have a long drop of 2 1/2" flex hose since it needs to move around a 1 meter square footprint. That should isolate it well enough from the metal overhead I would think?

 

[FlyingRon]

If you are using the HomeCenter 30g snap lock, you may have some difficulties on long runs between drops (my drops are heavier metal). I had some collapse on the left side of my shop and bit the bullet and bought a few 5' sections of heavier gauge stuff from Grainger (actually, I have some sections left since they only sell them in multiples of 5 and some other miscellaneous pieces... a couple of large 90 sweeps in 6" diameter and some black 4" "flexible" )hose if you have use for it. By the way, I don't like the black stuff...too stiff. I replaced most of it with the clear spiral wire hose to make the connections between the machine and the dust trunks.

 

[Carl Fisher]

What I have is the PSI "economy" pipe. Picked some up off CL that was never installed.

 

[tri4sale]

I figured for my CNC I'd have a long drop of 2 1/2" flex hose since it needs to move around a 1 meter square footprint. That should isolate it well enough from the metal overhead I would think?

The problem with some CNC machines is the DC generates static electricity when running, which causes signal issues. Not all CNC's have this issue, ShopBot's are known for this problem. I just ran a copper wire from the router through the DC pipes and terminate at the DC, and I don't have issues (knock on wood) If I unhook the wire, my signal issues come back.

 

[Carl Fisher]

So I'm considering going a slightly different route now. Based on the way I use my shop I'm just not sure that I need to have permanent piping and drops to every tool. Since there is only one of me, I'm only ever using one tool at a time.

I might setup everything with the dust rite ports and have a central drop with a 21' hose that I can move where I need it. I usually batch my work so I'm not often jumping from machine to machine but rather do a bunch on one machine then move on to another. And for those that I do move around between, they are close together so I can setup permanent ducts to each with blast gates and have a single outlet at the end of the bench for the dust rite to connect to. I'll end up much cheaper and only minimal hassle I think.

 

[tri4sale]

So I'm considering going a slightly different route now. Based on the way I use my shop I'm just not sure that I need to have permanent piping and drops to every tool. Since there is only one of me, I'm only ever using one tool at a time.

I might setup everything with the dust rite ports and have a central drop with a 21' hose that I can move where I need it. I usually batch my work so I'm not often jumping from machine to machine but rather do a bunch on one machine then move on to another. And for those that I do move around between, they are close together so I can setup permanent ducts to each with blast gates and have a single outlet at the end of the bench for the dust rite to connect to. I'll end up much cheaper and only minimal hassle I think.

Not a bad idea, keeping it simple, fewer runs presents fewer areas for leaks, makes troubleshooting issues easier, and keeps cost down. That's basically what I've done, I have a dedicated line to the CNC machine since it needs the grounding, then a Dust Rite 21ft hose that I pull out and connect to the other machines. I have a small shop, so I will pull the jointer, planer, sander etc. to a spot at end of CNC to work at, and just hook up the Dust Rite hose.

 

[Carl Fisher]

How do you like the dust right hose? Does it seem to hold up well?

And for others before they say it, I'm aware I'll lose CFM with the corrugated hose, but I think for what I'm using it for that I'll still be alright. If I use a planer or jointer once a year that's a lot. Primarily it's going to be for lathes, sanders, band saw and table saw. Everything else is an occasional use only tool.

If I go this route, I can likely run a single trunk low on the wall down one side of the shop to the halfway point instead of down the center ceiling and have it much more accessible. A single 21' hose will reach everywhere in the shop with plenty to spare to go around obstacles. Wishing I had taken the advice of putting pvc into the slab before we poured.

 

[KenOfCary]

Carl, I've had my Dust Right hose for many years - 5 at least and it is holding up well. It is slicker than most 4" hose and is very flexible. It hasn't lost any flex or strength in the time I've had it. I don't feel like it loses much suction at all due to being corrugated. I'm sure there is some loss but it is negligible. I like it so well I bought a second shorter one for cleanup around the lathe. They also make a 2-1/2" version for use with a shop vac.

I set up the lathe with its own small DC and this is the Dust Right connected to a brush head and separate blast gate for clean-up.

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