I've never had any training in wood work.

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nn4jw

New User
Jim
Please show me where I did any of that.

OK.

And you have people willing to teach you how to do almost any aspect of woodworking for such a low cost. I can't believe we don't have workshops scheduled every month. I don't understand why there is not a waiting list to get into these workshops.

Not particularly harsh, Mike, but still sets the tone for blaming the audience. There are other places in this thread far worse.

That said, try not to take everything so personal.
 

SubGuy

Administrator
Zach
I highly recommend taking that particular topic into a private discussion.

As for the questions we see on the forum, I do see some basic questions, if that's what you are referring to. But the level of basic pales in comparison to the Facebook Groups I am a member of. To become a member of this group, you have to put forth effort to find it and register. Then you still require effort to keep engaged compared to Facebook or other non-forum platforms. Facebook throws the group in front of you and most people live on Facebook through their PCs, Tablets and Phones, ours is not as integrated into the rest of their electronic lifes. There is no effort for engagement in that format. I have actually seen a question that was the same as the previous post from an hour ago from a different person. To top that off, the question was technical in nature and the first result that popped up on an Internet search. What I take out of this is the easier it is to interface with, the low level of dedication and effort you see with a group as a whole. I enjoy our depth of topics here whether it be far above my head, out of my area of discipline or as basic as accounting for saw blade width and the gamut that is the middle. When someone really promotes and want something like a workshop to happen whether it be theirs, one they want to attend or one they really would like to see happen, and it doesn't, it's disappointing. It's not a failure though or a lack of engagement from the community as a whole. It could be so many things that cause it to not occur that to really understand it's non-start is very difficult. I hope we continue to offer them, I would love to be able to attend one when the stars align for me or I retire from service.
 

Graywolf

Board of Directors, President
Richard
Staff member
Corporate Member
Zach, here's to hoping the stars align, because I think you'd have a great time.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
OK.



Not particularly harsh, Mike, but still sets the tone for blaming the audience. There are other places in this thread far worse.

That said, try not to take everything so personal.

I sorry for blaming anyone, if anyone is to blame it’s probably me.

You may know as I have said many times I am not the best writer.

For me everything is personal as I am offering my opinions.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
I did host a turning workshop with Alan and Millissa Dewey at my home several years ago and learned some proper spindle turning techniques.

But other than that brief encounter I don't know any teachers, never went to a school, don't have any training or instruction to fall back on.

Everything I do I had to learn the hard way, I got the tool or made a tool and played around til I made it work. Sometimes I ruined the tool, ruined the work, or had to visit the ER. Eventually I figured out a way to get things done.

That is a long, hard, expensive way to go. And I'm still struggling with some things, but some things I have down pat after 15-20 years.

My biggest regret is that I didn't seek help while I was younger, had more time, and was better able to learn and retain information. I would be so far ahead now.

So, I see the same thing going on with a lot of you younger guys, but you have this unbelievable resource at your fingertips. You can ask any question and have an answer or even several answers in a matter of minutes. Sometimes it took me years to find a source or get some basic information.

And you have people willing to teach you how to do almost any aspect of woodworking for such a low cost. I can't believe we don't have workshops scheduled every month. I don't understand why there is not a waiting list to get into these workshops.



For me Mike, woodworking has always been a solitary hobby, my time to get away and create. I have been doing it for about 30 years and I too am self taught. Sure, I butchered alot of lumber in the process, but even seasoned pros do that. I enjoyed the self taught part of it, reading an article in fine woodworking and then going and trying some techniques with new tools hopefully. I wouldnt exactly cut youtube out of the picture either as a resource, there is TONS of great info there, you just need to know whats good and what isnt. As for this site, the problem I see with it is someone asks a question and suddenly they get bombarded with 12 different techinques or processes and suddenly their thread becomes an argument between seasoned woodworkers on why theirs is better. Who wants to wade through that?. Much less take a class put on by said group of experts. Just my opinion for what its worth.
 

Drew

Drew Goodson
User
I’m a woodworker under 40. I have two kids, 5 & 3, and a third on the way. I have a full time job and am a part time PhD student. I haven’t meaningfully used my shop since Christmas. Lately, I barely have time to mow my yard. This site is basically my only connection to the hobby.
 

beloitdavisja

James
Corporate Member
With those under 40, kids and family life takes a huge chunk of time, and rightfully so. I'm 35 and have two kids (5 & 2) that want to play with Dad when he gets home, and my wife who has been with the kids almost all day wants to relax. The oldest just started playing some sports and is starting kindergarten in the fall. My shop time is after the kids go to sleep at 9, until I go to bed usually around 1am. That's also the only time I can relax with my wife and watch some TV together. The reason I will not be attending the picnic tomorrow is that my son has his preschool "graduation" the same day.

I have not been to a NCWW workshop, but that's more due to the distance than anything. I try hard not to saddle my wife with the kids too much for too long, since she has her own hobbies and volunteer work that she needs time to do.

I have taken advantage of NCWW in other ways: I've been to both of the recent Charlotte area meetups (both hosted by under-40's). I did take a class at the Woodwright school that was graciously offered up for free by a NCWW member who was not able to go last minute. I've bought tools in the classifieds and talked shop with members when I picked it up. I met a few of you at the Stanley County Agri-Civic day (I didn't work the booth because I bring my son, who obviously wants to do all the activities). I'm not a prolific poster or commenter, but I'm glad I feel comfortable asking questions here and participating.
 

danmart77

Dan
Corporate Member
Mike I got to the picnic a little late and the meal and the prize auction took up most of the second half of the day. Not much time to talk with all the folks you'd like to meet in person - but that was my fault looking back. As I moved around the crowd I searched for names and "call signs" that would put a face on the names I see here on the forum. That was a task.

What becomes obvious to me at the annual picnics is how broad our membership range really is. We have folks that want to know what the best fence post wood would be for their horse farm and another that wants to know which bent gauge is best for removing the background on a shell carving.

NCWW is a very big title that invites a large spectrum of interests. After close to 10 years of membership here I think its fair to say we have a diverse group.

Recently, I think there has been a noticeable reduction in actual woodworking presented and discussed on the site. Maybe its going on but members aren't posting photos or discussing much about building or repairing. I'm not talking about "how do I get shellac off the candle stick" threads here. I'm talking about here is the bookcase I built for my house type things and here's how I did it.

I have tapered off taking photos of work I am doing. I look back at things I posted like bending oak for a chair and wood selection and see 300 views and no replies. Just below it I find a thread about a small router switch position and see lots of views and 30 replies. Again, the interest range is broad so I don't get discouraged I just leave the camera on the shelf and do more carving. I do love carving more than explaining how I do it so its good.

Mike as a retired high school teacher, I watched the complete removal of hands-on training with a small part of it replaced with computer simulation. My personal example is flight training. I used to teach ground school, computerized flight instruction and then 10-15 hours of time in the plane. In the end a Solo flight. To keep it short: I never heard a single student say that was just like the computer. Its gone now.

I don't know what the answer is Mike but I do know that showing others how to do things never hurt anyone that I recall. Some of the things I learned from my uncle up in Bath Maine are priceless to me today and I never got the chance to thank him. So maybe that's my karma??

later
 
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smallboat

smallboat
Corporate Member
There's a lot to chew on in this thread. One topic I'll take a stab at is the question of workshop attendance. Age and other responsibilities aside, its simply easier to organize a small group or one on one session than a bigger more formal workshop. Yes the social element is stronger in the larger groups and that helps maintain cohesion in this group. But from a simple passing on of knowledge, skills, and experience point of view the small setting can be at least as good.

As some are aware, I've participated in a sharpening workshop, a train the trainer event, two or three outreach events, a spoon carving workshop, a small group wood turning tutorial, one on one saw sharpening lesson, an untralight canoe workshop; I might be forgetting some. I've visited a couple fellow members in their shops and swapped some tools and stories. With all that said I don't consider myself a terribly active member here.

I appreciate the flexibility to engage on whatever level my interests and current commitments and geography allow. Rather than focussing on the high visibility workshop format events; I suggest we recognize the value of the small, sometimes unmentioned, interactions that this site supports.

Clearly a larger group would appear to make the most of the presenter's time and effort. From the receiving end, I know I've gained much from each of the experiences I listed, and from watching the work in progress threads here. It all adds up to making the knowledge and experience we share available to others in formats that fit with our diverse and constantly varying needs.

I appreciate the sentiment of those who want to make the most of what we offer here, but let's not lose sight of the many small pieces that are a very real part of this site.

And THANKS to each of you who have made time to share your experience.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
For me Mike, woodworking has always been a solitary hobby, my time to get away and create. I have been doing it for about 30 years and I too am self taught. Sure, I butchered alot of lumber in the process, but even seasoned pros do that. I enjoyed the self taught part of it, reading an article in fine woodworking and then going and trying some techniques with new tools hopefully. I wouldnt exactly cut youtube out of the picture either as a resource, there is TONS of great info there, you just need to know whats good and what isnt. As for this site, the problem I see with it is someone asks a question and suddenly they get bombarded with 12 different techinques or processes and suddenly their thread becomes an argument between seasoned woodworkers on why theirs is better. Who wants to wade through that?. Much less take a class put on by said group of experts. Just my opinion for what its worth.

and yet, you invited smallboat and me to your shop to demonstrate bowl turning for him. An act of teach-ery. Perhaps a desire to share knowledge and have company in the shop.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
and yet, you invited smallboat and me to your shop to demonstrate bowl turning for him. An act of teach-ery. Perhaps a desire to share knowledge and have company in the shop.


Yes I did Mike! and I actually enjoyed it!. But Im not really a good teacher...
 

smallboat

smallboat
Corporate Member
I beg to differ!. Those couple of hours in your shop taught me more than endless hours of muddling about.
A long time turner friend had given me some books but they didn't make sense until I got it straight from the source.

For what it's worth in my own modest way I pass on these insights almost daily in my teaching job.

For those who lament that wood working and crafts in general are losing out to the digital world- fear not!
My classes include both (digital and analog) and given a choice many of the students I've had the last few years have chosen hands on woodworking over computer aided methods.
I have one student in 8th grade this year who is an outstanding turner. Her second ever bowl would stand its own next to any of mine. Currently she's working on a live edge cherry bowl. I've run an afterschool program in wood turning for the last three years. 4th and 5 graders. The only limit is the number of lathes I have.

Inspired by Paul Sellars, I've had students in the same age range carving spoons.

Its hard to beat the real time feedback to the choices you make and the direct connection to a tangible result.

So you never know what down stream effects your simple sharing can foster. The same can be said for Mike's sharpening tips and endless info on finishes and finishing I pick up in the forums. I could list more but you get the idea.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Yes I did Mike! and I actually enjoyed it!. But Im not really a good teacher...

That’s what I’m talking about, it was a fun night. I know he learned a lot because he was showing me later what he had done at home.

I enjoyed watching you show him how to make the bowl and I could see you were having a good time. I think you are a great teacher you just need to get more comfortable with it and the way to do that is by doing more of it.
 

PeteStaehling

New User
Pete
Interesting thread...

A few points... The under 40 demographic is fairly sparsely populated with folks interested in learning woodworking and those who are are working hard raising families. That probably cuts the number interested in classes pretty low. Then the remaining ones may get a lot of what they need from youtube videos.

I know some 30 somethings that have done some impressive things (not necessarily woodworking) by researching youtube stuff.

I learned to build and repair all manner of stuff as a kid because we were basically slave labor. We had limited tools and never hired a contractor to do anything. We fixed things that were not meant to be serviceable and built or improvised tools we couldn't afford or were just too frugal to buy. That has served me well and helped me develop a resourcefulness that gets things done with or without the right tools. I don't think all that many had that experience then and even fewer do now, so they rely on youtube if they do anything mechanical at all.
 

Richo B

New User
Richo
Mike I got to the picnic a little late and the meal and the prize auction took up most of the second half of the day. Not much time to talk with all the folks you'd like to meet in person - but that was my fault looking back. As I moved around the crowd I searched for names and "call signs" that would put a face on the names I see here on the forum. That was a task.

Dan - I was hoping to meet you at the picnic as I've read many of your posts on the forum. Didn't realize you were there yesterday. Perhaps we saw each other in passing.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
I beg to differ!. Those couple of hours in your shop taught me more than endless hours of muddling about.
A long time turner friend had given me some books but they didn't make sense until I got it straight from the source.

For what it's worth in my own modest way I pass on these insights almost daily in my teaching job.

For those who lament that wood working and crafts in general are losing out to the digital world- fear not!
My classes include both (digital and analog) and given a choice many of the students I've had the last few years have chosen hands on woodworking over computer aided methods.
I have one student in 8th grade this year who is an outstanding turner. Her second ever bowl would stand its own next to any of mine. Currently she's working on a live edge cherry bowl. I've run an afterschool program in wood turning for the last three years. 4th and 5 graders. The only limit is the number of lathes I have.

Inspired by Paul Sellars, I've had students in the same age range carving spoons.

Its hard to beat the real time feedback to the choices you make and the direct connection to a tangible result.

So you never know what down stream effects your simple sharing can foster. The same can be said for Mike's sharpening tips and endless info on finishes and finishing I pick up in the forums. I could list more but you get the idea.

Well I had no idea you were passing on whatever tidbits I gave you! Im glad to hear it planted some seeds as well!. I dont really mind teaching turning, because to me its a finesse thing that is best learned from another turner. Mike, if only I had more time!. I dont even have time to turn my own things it seems.
 

Grimmy2016

Administrator
Scott
School is over... I can start harassing you for my classes on Turning for Amy and I. And maybe even finish that work bench! LOL

I enjoy the workshops when they are available, and I also like the one-on-one tutorials... but what I like most is actually is just getting to work side by side on a project with someone who can guide me as we go. Having an end goal in mind and working and practicing on that end goal with someone who can watch me, correct, and teach me as I go is great. But who has the time to sit and watch and teach? between kids, work, family time, house projects and then trying to sync up calendars.

I know my kids watch YouTube a LOTTTTT! And they do seem to learn, but I think they are missing out on the personal experiences.... the ones that I get the most enjoyment from.

So thank you all who have spent time teaching me a class or working with me in your shop, or mine, and spending real time sharing your wisdom!!!

SCB
 

Grimmy2016

Administrator
Scott
I’m a woodworker under 40. I have two kids, 5 & 3, and a third on the way. I have a full time job and am a part time PhD student. I haven’t meaningfully used my shop since Christmas. Lately, I barely have time to mow my yard. This site is basically my only connection to the hobby.

I hear you... just finished my MBA, have 3 kids, a wife who is also in grad school, and my only time for the last year was through the website. Now that school is over for me, the kids want to spend all their time with me.... but never in the shop. Always at some game on the basketball court or on the PS4.
 

VTHokie

New User
John
Although it sounds as though Im in the 'older' demographic at 44, my reasons for not being able to attend a workshop are the same as many of the others who have offered them: distance (Im in Richmond, VA) and time (I have 2 daughters, 2 and 4 and a wife who all get my attention first and foremost and my hobbies, woodworking and SCUBA diving, come second). When I can find the time for woodworking right now, I can not begin to express how much I appreciate the contributions made on this site. I have learned a tremendous amount since joining NCWW a little over a year ago. I also find that YouTube and magazine's (particularly Woodsmith if I can name it specifically here) are valuable resources. Ultimately, the best way for me to learn something is to actually do it and for that reason I look at workshops as being invaluable. To be sure, the hand-on experience is nicely supplemented by a little research in texts and on the internet.

As an analytical chemist by trade, I recognize that there are usually multiple pathways to accomplish something and I sincerely enjoy learning about how someone else may do something differently than how I might approach the same thing. For this reason I also appreciate hearing the different pieces of advice on how each member may do something when someone posts a question. It offers the opportunity for me choose to adopt something exactly as posted in a single post or create a hybrid from several different posts.

I appreciate the learning opportunities that are created through NCWW and hope to be able to take advantage of the workshops eventually. So thank you for the wealth of information offered here and for the opportunities to learn!
 
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