Improving shooting plane ideas

[tvrgeek]

Do these thoughts seem viable?

I am using an old Miller Falls 814 jack, so no risk if I screw it up. I am having difficulty keeping it flat on the side. My problem of course. Skill does matter.

I have some 1/2 inch aluminum plate and could screw it to the side for a larger base platform and could shim the half-thou or so as it is not perfectly @ 90. I am also looking at the top rail idea but I think the bigger base is more practical.

I tried a hot-dog handle and was not very happy with it. Thinking about using an old cheap saw handle. Make a steel plate that bolts in place of the tote. maybe some additional stiffening. Position seems to be about right. Force more down than to the side. Pushing more from the rear than a hot-dog.

Third is with a square side base, I could add a guide rail out of some HDPE or Delrin to keep the sole up against the work. Kind of like the old Stanley base.

Is the lack of skew more of a limiting factor? One could maybe get a few degrees with a bit of file work on the frog and base so it does not enter the wood dead on. Even 5 degrees may help.

Is a strip of 600 or so grit on the fence an advantage as the work would not slip, but does it hurt in sliding it over that last thou? 1200?

Or I could win the lottery and buy a L-N 51 but that is not likely to happen.

A big , say 5 x 16 inch plate would slide on melamine OK, but I could even get a slab of Delrin for the base. I figure the extra mass of the plate would be a good thing.

Thoughts? Other ideas? Yes, I know a plain old smoother on a simple board has served for hundreds of years. That is not the point.

PS, I have a Lyon trimmer, but it requires you to get at least a 32nd bite to work due to the play in the ways where a shooting board can take a breath off. The skew does seem to help though.

 

[Graywolf]

Your idea for the handle has promise and I would start there. Adding a base will work and the choice of material is yours. Modifying the frog and angle of the blade, you may be better off building a shooting plane from scratch. A nice piece of seasoned well selected wood, two pieces of mild steel as a foot and bearing surface, a tapered blade salvaged from a roached out smoother or jack plane. Now that sounds like something you can get your teeth into. And can be done with low investment.

 

[mdbuntyn]

As you said, it's mostly a technique issue, but the plane's design is a factor as well.

Adding a wooden guide rail to my shooting board helped quite a bit when I was using a #6, but I still had to make sure that I wasn't tipping the plane. I eventually bought a Veritas shooting plane—I added a guide rail to the new shooting board as well.

 

[Rob01]

Have you considered that there might be a concave bow in the shooting board? Rob Cosman demonstrates how this can be in some of his videos. He glues up his shooting boards with pieces of painters tape on the back that force a slight convex bow.

 

[tvrgeek]

Your idea for the handle has promise and I would start there. Adding a base will work and the choice of material is yours. Modifying the frog and angle of the blade, you may be better off building a shooting plane from scratch. A nice piece of seasoned well selected wood, two pieces of mild steel as a foot and bearing surface, a tapered blade salvaged from a roached out smoother or jack plane. Now that sounds like something you can get your teeth into. And can be done with low investment.

Yea, that is plan 2. Plan 3 is shell out for the Veritas.

 

[Graywolf]

Yea, that is plan 2. Plan 3 is shell out for the Veritas.

Oh, so you’re figuring out which rabbit hole to go down. The thing to remember, is you can’t take all that money with you

 

[tvrgeek]

Guilty as charged.

 

[tvrgeek]

I think it is going to work. First tests look promising.
Still thinking about a wider right side as a base but the handle feels good. Not pretty yet of course.

 

[bowman]

great idea, but looks like it would be susceptible to tilting given where the handle it located

 

[tvrgeek]

Tilting to the work was one of the big problems I was having just holding on to it. Handle being offset and tilted just a little actually gives better down control and less tendency to tilt, balancing the tilt clockwise with the tilt counterclockwise. But not perfect hence the idea of a larger bottom plate. Also looking at the top rail shooting board idea. The angle is pretty slight. I think an inclined shooting board will help to get just a few degrees of skew on entry.

 

[Mike Davis]

Talk to @Hmerkle - Hank.
I think he is working on using the working parts of a wood body plane fitted to a large angle iron runner.

 

[tvrgeek]

Probably similar ideas. Larger base and runners. I have some old bearings that may help firm up the guiding and stay low friction.
Lots of ideas. Pausing right now as I really need to get my sisters end table completed! And the master bath, and...

 

[Rwe2156]

I think you're going to run into trouble b/c the center of gravity is too high and it will tend to tip.

Re: planes, one of the important features is mass. Lots of people recommend a jack plane. LN makes a hot dog attachment for theirs which in my hands just never felt right, and the plane is too light for shooting board (for me).

I find a #6 is best. The extra mass is really what makes it work. I've used a runner, and did away with it on the last one, as it is just as easy to maintain a little side pressure. I think wearing a glove for extended sessions is worth a look.

If the side isn't square to the sole, you can add strips of packing tape, or slant the blade.

I don't do enough of it to justify the cost of a shooting plane.

 

[Hmerkle]

My plan was / is to use a piece of angle, @Mike Davis gave me a transitional plane that I am going to pull the frog, blade assembly and lever cap. My hope is to set this at an angle to create a better shearing cut.

My biggest problem right now is getting the angle square

 

[Gofor]

I use my #6 bedrock. Its the only one that has perpendicular sides, unlike the Bailey's.

 

[tvrgeek]

I did not want to drill holes in my bedrock. Besides, if I use the large plate on the side, I can shim it for that last perfection. My MF is not very far off. I think it easier to make the plane square than to guess a tiny bit of skew when adjusting the iron.

My handle is mounted in 2 inch angle, so some weight. If I add the baseplate, it will be even heavier. It is an experiment. If I removed the tote, I could put the handle on the new baseplate and that would be much more stable.

 

[Scott H]

I will definitely say when I went from a post-WW2 Bailey #4 to a Veritas block plane with thicker castings on the sides that don't flex, and are surface ground square, shooting got dramatically easier. I had dialed in exactly how much to shim the #4 but it needed a lot of babysitting because of the flex on the sides knocking it a few thou of of square. It is still not very ergonomic to use the block plane because of how you have to hold it which makes me strongly consider building a wooden plane specifically for shooting or getting a modern high-end metal one, with a skewed blade and everything.

 

[tvrgeek]

Wow, how much force does it take to flex a cast iron plane! Of the various issues I am trying to solve, that is not on the radar.

My #4 Wood River is much heavier. Actually heavier than the Miller Falls 814. Have not tried it on a board though.
( Veritas, $380, L-N, $600. Worth playing around a bit) As the L-N price is double their LAJ, price seems our of line, but it is out of stock, so people are paying it)

 

[Scott H]

Just to make sure I wasn't spouting nonsense I looked at both planes... There is actually a tiny, tiny bit of flex in both the #4 and the Veritas, but the Veritas's sole and sides are ground so close to square I never have to shim it like I do on the #4, which likely has more to do with why I developed a preference for it for shooting.

We are talking like a few thou over 2" level of flexing out of square. I don't have a machinist quality setup to measure it but I am putting a machinist square next to the sole of the plane when sitting on its side, putting a flashlight behind it, and you can see a small gap open up when you press down on the plane with your hand. I remembered there was an effect but I guess smaller than I thought.

 

[tvrgeek]

Quite correct, the high handle was hard to keep registered, but, the lower part is just right!

It seems square enough and stable enough as it is. I may make a track on a better shooting board. May even give it a little incline so the blade enters slightly askew. Anyway, it is working so I guess I am on a reasonable track. Of course, I need to get some "T" nuts to clean it up a bit.