I covet some premium chisels

[tvrgeek]

Need to mention, you probably do not need a full set, just the go-to ones. ( I grab the 1/2 about 80% of the time) Of course, a full set is nice. A cheap set to use for ugly things is handy, just not as cheap as HF. If you could fined a set of Aldi that would be handy. No tears if you hit a hidden nail.

 

[demondeacon]

Taytools has them on sale right now. That's where got mine from and love them

Thanks for the tip of the new website Taylor Tools. Always good to have another one to browse. Even though the Narex Richter are on sale, the everyday price at Infinity is $10 cheaper. I have had good experience with Infinity as well but wish they shipped through UPS rather than USPS.

 

[Craptastic]

Too many times now I see USPS shipping and the mailman automatically takes any box over 4X4X4" and draws up the claim slip to leave in the mailbox rather than the box itself. 20 minutes to and fro and a gallon of gas to boot to go fetch my delivery.

I prefer UPS and Fedex now. It might cost me a couple of bucks more on the shipping but I'm not having to travel across town to go fetch something I paid to have shipped to me.

 

[tvrgeek]

Too many times now I see USPS shipping and the mailman automatically takes any box over 4X4X4" and draws up the claim slip to leave in the mailbox rather than the box itself. 20 minutes to and fro and a gallon of gas to boot to go fetch my delivery.

I prefer UPS and Fedex now. It might cost me a couple of bucks more on the shipping but I'm not having to travel across town to go fetch something I paid to have shipped to me.

I put in an oversize mailbox. Surprising how many things now fit in it. I have a nice mail-lady and she correctly delivers to the door the bigger stuff.

Infinity cheaper. I'll remember that. Or, darn, cheap enough to make me spend more money I should not.

 

[demondeacon]

You are lucky the mail folks down here on the coast won't get out of the truck to walk to the door. We also usually get our mail at 8pm at night, if at all. USPS in Wilmington is a total clown show.

 

[Craptastic]

I put in an oversize mailbox.

So did I right when we moved in. The largest that Lowes carries. It's surprising how many things will not fit in it per the local carrier. And they refuse to come up the drive.

 

[bowman]

Ok, enough about UPS/USPS and mailboxes, lets stay on track...

 

[BML]

Japanese chisel by a good smith will give you the sharpest edge and a long lasting one. I prefer White Steel #1, but there are a few different kinds of steels that are commonly used. If price wasn’t a big factor I would go for Japanese chisels.

 

[tvrgeek]

Japanese chisel by a good smith will give you the sharpest edge and a long lasting one. I prefer White Steel #1, but there are a few different kinds of steels that are commonly used. If price wasn’t a big factor I would go for Japanese chisels.

They do have a canted neck though. Some like that, some don't. A good Japanese chisel can be sharp, but no sharper than a good Western chisel. I gave that path a try many years ago. Iron plate, carbide grits, soft water stones. Sold it all.

Actually, some of the newer Western alloy technology can surpass the traditional ones from anywhere. The only way to get sharper is with obsidian, but it is a bit fragile for woodwork, more reserved for eye surgery.

Good Smith: Traditionally, "#2 son", "#1 son", "old man's" Price escalates from reasonable to astronomic. From what I understand the #2 son quality is as good as it gets. The masters tool is no better, just a reputation and several times the price.

Besides sharp, you want retention and how it degrades. I like my Rictor for how tough it is. No sharper than my Marples ( old real ones) but much tougher. I have a collection of chisels that were my grandfathers. I can get all of them sharp. Some can't hold up for one cut. Others can. By sharp, I can pare a transparent slice off endgrain. Quick test is if it falls through paper with an even smooth sound. A sheet of paper can pick up the smallest nick.

40 years ago I got catalogs from Japanese tool suppliers. Can't find the sources now. Woodcraft carries some. The better ones are laminated from soft backbone and hard edge layer.

 

[BML]

My Kiyohisa and Kikuhiromaru white steel #1 chisels would be my choice over anything else I have or currently do own. I do really like my set of Nooitgedagt chisels made with Swedish steel.

 

[Rwe2156]

I was a bit surprised to see WoodRiver ranked so high. German steel sent to China maybe? I’m a bit surprised to see them ranked #14. Keep in mind a lot if this is subjective.

I’d be curious to see if WBW has any LN planes in his arsenal. I’ve run across people who seem to have a prejudice against certain brands.

My progression of chisels went Irwin Marples —> Narex premium —> Lie Nielsen. LN are far and away better than any chisel I’ve had in my hands so far. The second you pick it up, you know it’s different.

If you’re looking at Narex, note they have two lines, the one ChrisC shows and the “premium” which have unhooped handles. The premiums have lower side lands or bevel heights, which make them a better dovetail chisel. Unless they’ve changed something.

Cosman did a comparison on the Richters bd WR and gave them a high rating.

My suggestion is to buy one chisel of 3-4 brands your interested in. Size, weight and balance can be as important as edge retention. I bought one Stanley 750 Sweetheart to try and was completely underwhelmed by the edge retention. It is a small chisel for me, and the light weight, in my XL hands it felt like a child’s tool.

I think it’s good to have a firmer set of chisels, which can be of lower quality. Can’t beat the blue handled Irwin’s for this.

 

[tvrgeek]

China can make as good a steel as anyone. It all depends if the brand name is 1: paying for it, and 2: They did not bait and switch on them. Most manufacturing sent to China is done so for lowest price, so pretty much assured the brand is not specifying or managing quality like a company dedicated to making the best. LN, Narlex, etc.

The offset handles on a Japanese chisel lets you clean out further into a dado or joint where a western chisel you would need a crank-neck. I just grab my router plane. I do not know if the angled handle helps compensate for the bevel trying to pull you off line when chopping. A couple thousand years of tool-making, maybe they discovered something.

Bob makes a very good point. Before buying a "set" , buy one each of the contenders and see. With premium tools, they all work but personal feel comes to play. I have three 1/2 inch bench chisels. All sharp as can be, but I do a better job with the Narlex. Magic you know. Magically I cut a better line after reshaping the handle on my cross-cut back saw. Maybe we just do a better job when smiling than frowning.

I like my Narlex Richtor so well, I would be afraid to pick up a L-N for fear it somehow feels even better. I was watching some Japanese joinery and saw them using a very wide chisel to tune the joint where I might have grabbed a 1", maybe there is a reason for an inch and a half with the larger registration. ( and their very complex joints) I made the mistake of buying a L-N pocket plane, now it has me rethinking all my Stanley's, even my Bedrock.

One idea is to get a cheap "beater" set. Primary @ 35 degrees for rough work, then primary your good ones @ 25 for hand paring and light tapping. I have heard of 20 and even 15 degrees. I reground an old 1/4 inch into a 1/8, and ground another old 1/4 to remove the side bevels for dovetail cleanout. These functions do not need durable, just sharp as they may cut a few inches of wood in a year. One can regrind a couple of 3/8's into skew chisels pretty easy too. After all, every woodworker already has a low speed grinder with a CBN wheel don't they?

PS: Cosman has a business relationship with Wood River and IBC. Mostly he is helping improve them, but the end result is going to be a bias, even if not intended.

 

[Rwe2156]

China can make as good a steel as anyone. It all depends if the brand name is 1: paying for it, and 2: They did not bait and switch on them. Most manufacturing sent to China is done so for lowest price, so pretty much assured the brand is not specifying or managing quality like a company dedicated to making the best. LN, Narlex, etc.

Agree but China cuts every corner they can unless the US monitors QC closely. Case in point: WoodRiver planes. I have both WR and LN the difference is not worth 2x the cost.

After using them I got rid of every Stanley I had, except a #4 a converted to a scrub. A bit extreme I know, but I like the feel and weight and thick irons so much better.

 

[demondeacon]

I was surprised that the LN scored sort of middle of pack as their planes are top notch. Their chisels now cost $75 to $100 each which makes then expensive to try on a one-off basis. I am leaning heavily towards a set of Narex Richter as they are one of the very best yet still reasonably priced at roughly 50% less than LN.

 

[plcrawfo]

Ill second the recommendation for the Narex Richter. I had a set of Ashley Isles, but it always seemed like the edges were a little crumbly. My father gave me a set of the Richters as a gift, and I've been thoroughly impressed. So much so that I got rid of the AIs. I prefer the balance of the Richters over the AIs, and the edge retention seems much improved.

 

[Stuart Kent]

I've made furniture for at least the last 20 years with Marples Blue Chips and they work dutifully. I also have a few Henry Taylor Diamic chisels that I like just as much. Tens of thousands of professional woodworkers from all corners of the earth have relied on Sheffield Steel since c.1840 - they can't all be wrong...

 

[jlimey]

I was surprised that the LN scored sort of middle of pack as their planes are top notch. Their chisels now cost $75 to $100 each which makes then expensive to try on a one-off basis. I am leaning heavily towards a set of Narex Richter as they are one of the very best yet still reasonably priced at roughly 50% less than LN.

I was surprised by the rank of the LN as well. Part of this is the middle of the pack score given for feel and sharpenability. I've handled a lot of these and I like the feel of LN the best. Definitely a subjective measure. Not exactly sure what he means by sharpenability, but my LN sharpen easily on water stones.

 

[ssmith]

Bought a set of these years ago and they seem good to me, but I'm no chisel expert. Wondering if you guys would consider them beater chisels or otherwise?

Garrett Wade

 

[demondeacon]

Beaters, slightly better than my Buck Bros., which are the definition of beaters!

 

[tvrgeek]

I was surprised by the rank of the LN as well. Part of this is the middle of the pack score given for feel and sharpenability. I've handled a lot of these and I like the feel of LN the best. Definitely a subjective measure. Not exactly sure what he means by sharpenability, but my LN sharpen easily on water stones.

I believe that was explained. I get various reviews mixed up. Stumpy, Rex, WbW etc. Just like all their instructionals, everyone has slightly different methods so you need to take it all in and see what makes sense to you. As an example, in most tests, a tuned Wood River bench plane is preferred to a late Stanley, but I find when I reach for a #4, somehow I grab my type 16 instead of the fancy new W-R. Maybe the weight is just alien to me even if it works better.

Methods sure do matter. When I started, the top option was an Ark. black. I still have it but not sure why. Slow does not even begin to describe it. Went to Spyderco and Coors ceramics. Not much better. Suffered with "scary" until I bit the bullet and got a set of DMT. Better, but still not happy. Added a 16000 Shapton. Now I am happy. I don't think I have enough years left to flatten and polish a 1 inch chisel on the old Norton oil and hard black.

Stuart,
They were not wrong for many decades. Over a century even. Then quality ( Irwin buyout and Blue chip went south) and advances in metallurgy changed everything. Cryo treating, automated heat treating, more precise CNC machining etc. and look at the differences between the offerings in plane irons with traditional and the new Veritas alloy. I believe I recently saw a review and both H-T and 2 Cherries were now middle of the pack for carving tools. Even my 1970 era Marples morticing chisels are a parallelogram, not square in cross section. Just enough to effect chopping a mortice.* My same vintage yellow handle Marples get as sharp as can be, but edge retention compared to my Narlex is almost a joke.

Now, across all the prestige brands, we are really just arguing between the best of the best.

*I am considering looking for a machine shop that can grind them square to the next smaller size. I don't use the big half inch that much anyway.