Help me ID this old Dewalt RAS

[accentphotography]

I am looking at purchasing this but it will be site unseen and the person selling it has no clue of the model number. It does have a 5hp 3ø motor. It is Dewalt but I do not know the model number and value if the bearings and motor are good. Any clues or help would be appreciated.

 

[Sealeveler]

Can't help with the saw but welcome to NCWW.
Tony

 

[dancam]

I think it's a GW model and most likely an industrial saw. You can get some really good info at the following site; http://mrsawdust.com/index.php.

Wally Kunkel was the lead salesman for DeWalt RAS in the 50s and 60s and he put together a how to manual...see the website.

Hope this helps and welcome.

Dan C.

 

[algustaf]

It is not a GE, but looks like a GA. The model # is on an ID plate located on the column. I think that may be from the Black and Decker years as it doesn't have the same Dewalt badge as most of the original Dewalts or the AMF years. It probably has a numeric model # as opposed to the alpha model #s that the original industrial saws were. It is a great industrial saw if it checks out. Very little changes from the origins as a GA. Make sure the arm and carriage do not have any wear along its pull. This would be noted by some tightness in the pull followed by wiggly looseness in the middle of the stroke back to tight again as you pull the blade toward you. If it has some slop that could be very expensive to have repaired. As for powering this beast, you need to have 3-phase, either a Rotary Phase Converter (RPC) or a very expensive Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) to operate in a residential shop. This should use about 15 Amps per leg of the 3 phases if my quick calculations are correct. That is a lot of power. But it is a Sawzilla and will cut anything you throw onto it.

Al

 

[accentphotography]

Thanks for the welcome. Great forum as you all know ... :notworthy:

I think the badge on front appears like a Black & Decker. Hopefully that is not a bad thing. I have been looking at Wally's pages but its limited online and I need to order the book.

Whats it worth in running condition? Money is tight right now and I don't need it this year but if it were a deal then maybe ...

 

[algustaf]

check out http://www.owwm.com/ for information on the DeWalt saws. Pics, manuals and lots of info on older machines.
As for value, or worth. That is for you to determine what it is worth to you and the seller. Brand new a saw like that is about $4000. Used from $200 to $1500. Depends on condition and seller. I paid $200 for a GA 3hp 3ph that needed a good tune up and new table top.

Al G

 

[accentphotography]

I am starting to think it is a Dewalt Black & Decker by the photo I have. Model 3526 is my best guess but the top raising knob is different than the past six Model 3526's that I have seen. The others have a short but fat cylindrical knob where the one I am looking at has the wooden handle. What color were the B&D Dewalt RAS's? I cannot tell if they were grey or black and was it a crinkle paint, glossy, matte or hammered paint?

Suggestions?

Just because they "badged" the RAS with Dewalt a division of B&D doesn't really mean it had B&D parts in it right? Don't get me wrong, 1960's B&D era stuff was decent but I don't want to kill the value due to the B&D name on it. Those Dewalts with the extra pivoting slide arm were cool. I am curious if they really held a good tolerance and set back to zero repeatably.

 

[algustaf]

The industrial line changed very little over the years.

 

[accentphotography]

How do you hide one of these from your wife? :argue: I just won one on ebay for $204.00 :eusa_danc but she will never understand how something that old can be that good :icon_scra. I could relate it to being the same age as she is and that things get better over time? :eusa_pray

All kidding aside. Can anyone tell me the best way to move one to make the handling easier? Do I take the slide rail off with the motor or take the post off or don't mess with it and try to take it like it is? I was at an auction and won a 20" planer for $70.00 which seemed great at the time but I can't move it easily. I have a cherry picker and a fairly low trailer but I don't want to ruin my epoxy coated floor.

I can't wait to see it. Pretty excited. I only hope it doesn't have the slide rail and bearing problems that need truing and replacing. It was pulled in working condition from a shop that is closing in town.

Looks like I need to order Mr. Sawdust's book. I read the other file by Roger Hill on rebuilding an that helps a little. Well ... its a start. Now what to do with the two CRAFTSMAN RAS's sitting around.:BangHead:

 

[accentphotography]

By the way, I forgot to mention that around here the Craftsman RAS's on Craigslist go for about ... hmmm ... $35.00 if you are lucky! I guess that is better than 6¢ a pound at the scrapyard.

 

[mkepke]

It's easiest to remove the motor+carriage assembly. Just disconnect the motor, remove the endcap (2 allen bolts) and unscrew the stop bolt. Then slide the carriage out. Be warned - it's probably close to 100#.

That leaves you with the arm+column+base+legs. You can lift this into the trailer using a cherry picker (engine hoist ?). That's a couple hundred # by itself, so lift it from under the base.

Definitely check the saw thoroughly for motor and arm problems (wear) before sinking more money into the saw. Either/both are the kiss of death for these saws.

-Mark

<snip>
All kidding aside. Can anyone tell me the best way to move one to make the handling easier? Do I take the slide rail off with the motor or take the post off or don't mess with it and try to take it like it is? I was at an auction and won a 20" planer for $70.00 which seemed great at the time but I can't move it easily. I have a cherry picker and a fairly low trailer but I don't want to ruin my epoxy coated floor.

I can't wait to see it. Pretty excited. I only hope it doesn't have the slide rail and bearing problems that need truing and replacing. It was pulled in working condition from a shop that is closing in town.

 

[accentphotography]

I spoke to the seller and it turns out he is an old friend from about 15 years ago. Small world. Anyways, one of the forum members told me to take off the motor first (but be ready for the weight), to unbolt the pole and rail (he advised making a simple 2x4 frame with a base, two verticals and the final 2x4 goes horizontally under the rail to support it when it us unbolted and then move the table and legs as a single unit.

I am going to check it out tomorrow. The guy who owned it said it works great and has no rail or bearing problems. I'm pretty stoked. Lookin forward to seeing the new addition!

 

[ashley_phil]

i'd ship it assembled if you can get it on and off your trailer.

take some cedar ships and wedge them in the tracks to secure the head from moving on the arm then crank it all the way down and you shoudl be good to go.

 

[mkepke]

i'd ship it assembled if you can get it on and off your trailer.

take some cedar ships and wedge them in the tracks to secure the head from moving on the arm then crank it all the way down and you shoudl be good to go.

If you intend to move the saw assembled, then the saw motor needs to be fully supported by the table/base. For example, place a block of wood under the saw motor and lower the column until the saw motor is resting on the block of wood (which is resting on the table/base).

The saw motor assembly weighs too much to leave it hanging off the arm during transport. A bad bounce can damage the machine.

-Mark

 

[ashley_phil]

If you intend to move the saw assembled, then the saw motor needs to be fully supported by the table/base. For example, place a block of wood under the saw motor and lower the column until the saw motor is resting on the block of wood (which is resting on the table/base).

The saw motor assembly weighs too much to leave it hanging off the arm during transport. A bad bounce can damage the machine.

-Mark

good point

 

[accentphotography]

Saw the saw today. :gar-Bi Its a B&D 5320. One of the patents on the arm mentioned 1962 so I know it is around that. I was born in '63 so it would be cool if it was my year. Anyways ... I downloaded the manual from originalsaw.com for model 3431 and it amazes me how much they share the same parts.

Should I expect their products to be close to mine? This would help me if I decide some of the detail items like the arms ruler or the degree scale could be replaced. Of course it would not be 100% authentic but for me I am looking for functionality over restoration status.

Now I am curious as to what a 3hp single phase could cost from them.

I am posting a few images of the saw as it sits at the other shop and I will possibly put them in a online album if it helps anyone for reference.

In image 3 is the nail a normally supplied to keep the saw raising handle on?

In image 5 is the column shaft locking nut and bolt supposed to be that or some type of handy dandy lever that is easier and faster to use?

I am guessing the screen door spring is a add on for the blade guard in image 9?

Do images 10 & 11 make a decent blade guard if I can find the correct bolt to put it together?

In image 8 can the plastic around the round start and stop buttons be replaced with NOS or do I need to find a used part?

Yes I will change the wires before starting it. Even though the owner swears it is fine, I have a problem with brittle wires combined with major amps.

And last but least ... is it definitely a three phase saw? It does not say it directly anywhere and the motor is a polyphase motor and some them I have found were single phase. I know I am asking for a lot here but work with me here ... I don't have a power source yet and I already told someone tonight that i would give him my two craftsman RAS just to make room for this one.ccasion1

[/IMG]

 

[mkepke]

Ken said:
Saw the saw today.

Its a B&D 5320. One of the patents on the arm mentioned 1962 so I know it is around that. I was born in '63 so it would be cool if it was my year.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your saw was made in 1970 or later. This is when B&D changed from the alphabetic model designations to the numeric. For example, pre 1970, this would have been a model 'GA'

Should I expect their products to be close to mine? This would help me if I decide some of the detail items like the arms ruler or the degree scale could be replaced. Of course it would not be 100% authentic but for me I am looking for functionality over restoration status.
Yes, the OSC products will be very similar. But frankly you could do as well for less money looking for parts off dead saws.

Now I am curious as to what a 3hp single phase could cost from them.
Sit down before you ask. I will guess $1800..for just the motor.

I am posting a few images of the saw as it sits at the other shop and I will possibly put them in a online album if it helps anyone for reference.

In image 3 is the nail a normally supplied to keep the saw raising handle on?
No (but you knew that). I think originally that would have been a roll-pin. I suspect the wooden handle is shop-made. I'm not sure what happens to the handles - my guess is somebody drops something heavy on the handle, breaking it, then doesn't bother with a new roll-pin when they replace the handle.

In image 5 is the column shaft locking nut and bolt supposed to be that or some type of handy dandy lever that is easier and faster to use?
Image 5 shows the locking nuts and bolts for the column assembly - these are factory. You should not have to adjust these more than once in a blue moon (say, after transporting the saw).

I am guessing the screen door spring is a add on for the blade guard in image 9?
I think that's a good guess. I wonder what the spring was supposed to do ?

Do images 10 & 11 make a decent blade guard if I can find the correct bolt to put it together?
Hard to argue with the value of a guard, but you'll have to try it and see. OCS and Wolfe sell an alternate form of 'link' guards, but they are $100+

In image 8 can the plastic around the round start and stop buttons be replaced with NOS or do I need to find a used part?
You'll need to find a NOS part. Those switches haven't been made in a long time. That might be a moot point, depending on how you power this saw (since your single phase source may have its own on/off).

If you want the correct buttons, PM me.

Yes I will change the wires before starting it. Even though the owner swears it is fine, I have a problem with brittle wires combined with major amps.

And last but least ... is it definitely a three phase saw? It does not say it directly anywhere and the motor is a polyphase motor and some them I have found were single phase. I know I am asking for a lot here but work with me here ... I don't have a power source yet and I already told someone tonight that i would give him my two craftsman RAS just to make room for this one.

This saw is definitely 3 phase. "Polyphase" = more than 1 phase. Motor voltage is 220V/440V - classic 3ph voltages. Amp draw @ 220V (14A) is much too low for 5HP @ 220V 1 ph.

14A * 3 legs = 42A/2 = 21A @ 220V 1ph..which is about right for a 5HP 1ph motor.

Lastly, look inside the wiring box on the motor. Bet you $10 you don't find a capacitor or a relay in there. Single phase motors need a cap and a relay to kick start the motor.

Very lastly, you can also count the number of wires in the electrical cord..there will be four. One for each phase plus a ground.

And truely, ultimately, lastly: I looked in my B&D catalog from 1970 and it said the 3520 is a 3 phase saw (but somebody could have replaced the motor, which is why the above is important).

-Mark

 

[ashley_phil]

according to the motor tag it is a 3-phase motor.

 

[accentphotography]

Thanks for the info guys. Really helpful on the details per question Mark. So did Original Saw acquire the factory equipment that makes the parts because I swear this looks identical to some of their models. The only bonus there is that I have a parts supplier but like you mentioned Mark, I better take a seat.

Do you think that wooden handle was someones idea or was that what it came with?

The On/Off switch area is looks like I could up grade it to their end fitting and switch but as mentioned, the phase convertor may have the switch on it.

You guys know how it is when you get your "first", time experience. Well I am there. Hopefully this young girl (a year younger than my first wife's age) will not be as much trouble as my "made in 1969" first wife Should I expect multiple personalities with the saw?
And yes, I compare things to my marriages and children :rotflm: