I am building a table with multiple through tenons. My concern is the glue staining the end grain as I push the tenons through the mortise. Just wondering how you guys would handle this. I am thinking of prefinishing the ends of the tenons but also thought of just applying glue to the tenons sides only.
Glue for through tenons
- Thread starter joec
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I was not planning on using pegs but had thought about drawboring only. This table is the Asian Inspired Hall Table shown in FW a couple of years ago. It will have 12 through tenons, all having to be glued up during the frame assembly.
You could also leave the tenons a little long and plane level to the table top after the glue is dry.
I did this on a recent table. Start the tenon in the mortise far enough to cover the end that will be exposed. Then apply glue to the rest of the tenon and push it the rest of the way through.
I think applying finish to the exposed part of the through tenon in advance is a great idea. Just enough finish to keep the glue from absorbing, so you don't increase the thickness of the tenon and make it so it doesn't fit anymore.
Here is a video that talks about applying glue to the mortise only, mortise and tenon, or tenon only. They advise against applying glue to the tenon only. Like most things, there is no single right way to do things. Some people will have success with methods that others say will never work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1eNkCMzMk8
Here is a video that talks about applying glue to the mortise only, mortise and tenon, or tenon only. They advise against applying glue to the tenon only. Like most things, there is no single right way to do things. Some people will have success with methods that others say will never work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1eNkCMzMk8
I think I would add a thick ring of glue around the tendon near the tip side and maybe a little around the shoulders. When you slide the tendon in, it should self spread the glue for you.
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If the end of the tenon is going to finish flush, I would leave it proud a little and then plane if smooth with the surface after the glue dries. If the end of the tenon extends out as a finished product, I would at least put enough finish on it to seal the exposed end and prevent glue being absorbed so the glue can be easily wiped off while wet (this is assuming its a water soluble glue like tite-bond). If using stain, apply the stain and one layer of top coat on the exposed portion and back slightly into the joint area.
When I draw bore a joint, I go light on the glue, so as not to gum up the draw-bore hole, putting no glue on the tenon in a strip from the end to the hole, and just applying glue to the top and bottom thirds of the mortise. Glue can go on the peg when it is installed.
If the tenon is a snug fit, just putting glue on the sides of the tenon and hoping it spreads may end up with a glue-starved joint for most of the tenon length. If the tenon slides in easily, that method may work better.
Go
When I draw bore a joint, I go light on the glue, so as not to gum up the draw-bore hole, putting no glue on the tenon in a strip from the end to the hole, and just applying glue to the top and bottom thirds of the mortise. Glue can go on the peg when it is installed.
If the tenon is a snug fit, just putting glue on the sides of the tenon and hoping it spreads may end up with a glue-starved joint for most of the tenon length. If the tenon slides in easily, that method may work better.
Go
If the wood is sealed, even tite-bond will often pop off after it cures. The problem with the glue getting into the raw wood is that it seals the pores where the glue is, and usually becomes visible when you apply stain or finish. The stain and finish goes into the raw part of the wood, but not the glue-residued part, resulting in a lighter colored blotch where the glue was. On the straight grain, you can sometimes sand or scrape down to good wood, but it is very difficult to do this on the end grain of many woods as the glue gets pulled into the capillaries.
Go
He may have been talking about hide glue. I haven't used it enough to know if it causes the same problems as PVA (tite-bond) or polyurethane glues.
This came up at the "Wood Coloring Workshop" a while back with Dan (danmart77). According to Dan, hide glue accepts stain and doesn't have the same finishing problems as PVA glues. Hide glue is used for hammer veneering and it is purposely applied to BOTH sides of the veneer.
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Liquid hide glue also has a long open joint time allowing for a complex glue-up to be done. It's often called chair-maker's glue for this reason.
Hide glue also cleans up nicely with a warm damp rag before and after it dries. If your goal is a flush fit I would also leave it proud and then cut/plane it flush after the glue dries. I have had to burnish the end grain of tenons with a ball peen hammer to mushroom it out a little to fill small gaps between the tenon and mortise.
+1....A good sharp block plane should take off any glue residue even if you leave the tenons proud. That should leave a surface ready for stain.
Original poster has stated that the tenons will be proud with 1/8" bevels on each edge, not flush.
Also +1. Drawbore them correctly and glue will be optional....
Are you making the Asian Inspired Table by Timothy Rousseau from FWW? Watch the video at FWW, which reveals the details which we weren't given.
1. I don't think that any of those 12 twin tenons have to be glued at all for overall stability and strength of the table. Rousseau used hide glue (Old Brown Glue) so it cleans up and is removed easily even a day later. It doesn't affect a finish so you can be a bit sloppy with it.
2. The other M&T joints for the legs, lower shelf, stretchers, etc. keep the assembly square and true so why fret?
1. I don't think that any of those 12 twin tenons have to be glued at all for overall stability and strength of the table. Rousseau used hide glue (Old Brown Glue) so it cleans up and is removed easily even a day later. It doesn't affect a finish so you can be a bit sloppy with it.
2. The other M&T joints for the legs, lower shelf, stretchers, etc. keep the assembly square and true so why fret?
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