Ebonizing wood with rusty water and winemaker's tannin.

Status
Not open for further replies.

marinosr

Richard
Corporate Member
I'm interested in ebonizing some wood for an upcoming project. I had read Brian Boggs' method using a tannin extract tea and rusty vinegar water. (Here's the article, unfortunately pictures aren't working on PW articles, but here's another post using the same method) In this method, you soak wood in a tannin tea from quebracho bark, which is very high in tannins. Then you paint on rusty water, and it turns jet black nearly instantly. (For chem minded folks, I think the tannins reduce and chelate the iron, resulting in the black iron (II) color) I couldn't find a good source for quebracho where the shipping wouldn't cost dearly, though, so I got some winemaker's tannin on Amazon (1 lb. for $10, free shipping) and used that instead. It's tannin from European chestnut.

I tried it on a variety of woods. The results were great. Death black... space black.

Eastern white pine, hard maple, khaya, red oak, white ash

attachment.php


Top is tannin + iron, middle is iron only. Iron only did not yield any satisfactory results, even on high-tannin wood like oak. The pic perhaps doesn't do it justice... all pieces are dead black in person with the exception of the pine, which has a slight bluish cast. Maple took 2x staining but eventually got to black. The khaya and ash look especially great. The nice open grain of the ash combined with the striking black is a nice combo. I'm going to use ash for some stool legs soon and ebonize them, and I'm using maple for a shaker clock I'm building... going to ebonize the knobs and trim for contrast.

attachment.php


My jar of steel wool and vinegar.

attachment.php


The tannin I used

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20181027_170105085.jpg
    IMG_20181027_170105085.jpg
    188 KB · Views: 679
  • IMG_20181027_180059439.jpg
    IMG_20181027_180059439.jpg
    121.7 KB · Views: 592
  • IMG_20181027_170132839.jpg
    IMG_20181027_170132839.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 491
  • IMG_20181027_170108767.jpg
    IMG_20181027_170108767.jpg
    152.7 KB · Views: 471

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
Great timing.... I actually called a local home brew business earlier this week to see if they had powdered tannin in stock. Thanks.
 

shawn

New User
shawn
Very cool! I've used iron mixed in a water/vinegar combo on woods with high tannin content (cherry, mahogany, eucalyptus) with excellent results, but it never worked on light woods. Never occurred to me to add tannin to the wood.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
You're on an interesting experimental excursion but I think that a TransTint black dye is a better option with no variability across wood species. As an organic chemist I've experimented with the iron/vinegar and tannic acid concoctions as well.

1. Bought tannic acid powder. It's more predictable than the tannin solutions made from "teas".

2. Iron/vinegar solutions are initially clear and light yellow in color but turn reddish/brown and opaque in air. That's an iron (III) acetate complex that looks like rust and really ugly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron(III)_acetate

3. The iron (III) acetate complex reacts with the tannic acid to produce iron tannate which is greenish black to black.

4. Switched to iron (II) sulfate solution instead of the iron/vinegar mess and applied it over the tannic acid on the wood. It's much better and achieves the same ebony black color.

5. The ebony color is very shallow on the surface of the wood if you make a fresh cut and look at the end grain, but I didn't compare that to a black dye.

Good luck.
 

Roy G

Roy
Senior User
Since this is a water solution, it's going to raise the grain. Can you sand off the fuzz without removing the color?

Roy G
 

marinosr

Richard
Corporate Member
Since this is a water solution, it's going to raise the grain. Can you sand off the fuzz without removing the color?

Roy G

Yes, to a reasonable extent. But you can also pre-raise the grain with the tannin solution, scuff sand, repeat if desired, and then apply the iron solution, so that you don't have to worry about sanding through.
 

Tom from Clayton

tom
Corporate Member
Spraying a dilute solution of tannin in water, letting it dry, then fuming with household strength ammonia makes a very nice brown color, at least on the sycamore I tried it on.
 

Jim Wallace

jimwallacewoodturning.com
Jim
Corporate Member
http://www.woodfinishingenterprises.com/

This website is a great resource for coloring wood - chemicals and natural products - as well as finishing supplies.

George Frank wrote two wonderful books about old world finishing techniques. He used a wash of brazilwood or logwood to provide the tannic acid and various mordants to change the color, including iron acetate or iron sulfate to produce black. He called the vinegar and iron solution "liquid nightmare" and cautions you to leave the top of the jar cracked when making iron acetate as the reaction produces gas that can send the mixture all over your shop if a glass container is tightly sealed.
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
BruBuddies.....I assumed it catered to beer but didn't ask.

Tannins are present in the grains used to make beer but I don't think that tannic acid per se is added as an ingredient in the brewing process.
 
Last edited:

Jeff

New User
Jeff
He called the vinegar and iron solution "liquid nightmare" and cautions you to leave the top of the jar cracked when making iron acetate as the reaction produces gas that can send the mixture all over your shop if a glass container is tightly sealed.

That's hydrogen gas (the bubbles) seen in the acetic acid/steel wool solution from the chemical reaction.
 

marinosr

Richard
Corporate Member
Jeff can you post pics of using transtint? I looked at a good number of pics online (which can be deceiving, especially w/ black, I know) but the results I saw were not impressive... blotchy, variation in tone, etc.
 

Chris C

Chris
Senior User
Tannins are present in the grains used to make beer but I don't think that tannic acid per se is added as an ingredient in the brewing process.

I don't know anything about wine or beer making but the guy said he had a bag of it...$7
 

Jeff

New User
Jeff
Jeff can you post pics of using transtint? I looked at a good number of pics online (which can be deceiving, especially w/ black, I know) but the results I saw were not impressive... blotchy, variation in tone, etc.

I don't have any pictures of TransTint black dye on wood. Where did you seed the online pics using TransTint black specifically because I can't find any. I'd guess that 2 coats should be used for a thorough black color especially on light colored woods.
 
Last edited:

Chilihead

New User
Chilihead
I've used Brian's method of ebonizing with great results. It produces a consistent color, and a very deep black. Quebracho bark is used in tanning leather, so if you have a leather shop in town you might be able to get some from them. As mentioned in previous posts, some woods turn faster than others ( were talking a difference on 10-15 minutes though), and some low tannin woods might need 2 treatments. I ebonized a soft maple chair and it took 2 treatments and more time to react as compared to an oak project that turned quite quickly after just 1.
It is water based so you do need to mindful of the grain raising potential. Again as previously mentioned though, the initial step of spraying quebracho bark tea solution will raise the grain and you can knock it back before adding the vinegar solution. I've found the things planed or spokeshaved tend not to have problems with grain raising, whereas it is much more pronounced on sanded pieces. The chemical dye does go deep enough to allow some light sanding afterwards, and/or small spot treating is quite easy if needed after sanding. Brian says the chemical dying is much more colorfast than traditional dyes.....he's got years of experience, so he's got my confidence. Also I've found that the inevitable dings and scratches you'll get as your pieces ages hides well with this process, unless it is a huge scratch, the black color is deep enough to remain.
Also, a previous post is right, punch a small hole in your vinegar steel wool solution so the pressure does not build up in there. Also I've found heat helps to speed along the vinegar dissolving the steel wool.

 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Premier Sponsor

Our Sponsors

LATEST FOR SALE LISTINGS

Top