Collapsed pail

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
I started using my Clear Vue CV-06 mini cyclone and Ridgid shop vac for my sanders. The shop vac has a 2-1/2" hose, the sanders all use 1-1/4" hose. The suction was apparently too much for the CV-06 bucket causing it to collapse.

So, how can I fix this bucket and how do I prevent this from happening?
Collapsed bucket (2).jpg
Collapsed bucket (3).jpg
Collapsed bucket (1).jpg
 

Gunnage

Greg
User
I’m not sure on the fixing this bucket. Main hook up the blower side of the shop vac and cap an end to re expand it? Being careful not to burn out the motor.

I’ve seen similar issues prevented by making a plywood ring to go in the center which would keep it from collapsing. Not sure if that would impact the actual dust collection or not, but I’ve seen several YouTube videos where they did that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Pop Golden

Pop
Corporate Member
My son had the same problem. He was using a Dust Deputy and a shop vac on his CNC machine. The bucket in this incident was the heavy duty fiber drum that comes with the DD. He too had a hose difference.

Pop
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Corporate Member
There was a photo in the archives here of a 20 gallon galvanized trash can done the same way. Probably got lost in the changeover. Had that problem on mine and cut a plywood ring and fastened it to the inside about halfway up. Split it and made it spiral around the drum so as to promote the dust settling. Worked fine. It should work as well for a plastic bucket.
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
Thanks for the responses.

I was able to get the collapsed pail back to almost normal. I used my heat gun to warm it up and tapped it out with a dead blow hammer.
Now just have to figure out the best way to reinforce it so it doesn't happen again. I found a You Tube video that showed putting one pail inside of another stops it from imploding. I'm guessing due to the suction created between the two pails. I'll try that first before shoving a wood ring inside the pail.
 

Charles Lent

Charley
Corporate Member
Stacking several of the same style buckets doubles or triples the side wall thickness and is very easy to do. I had to do this when I switched from using a shop vac and Dust Deputy to a central vac unit with the Dust Deputy. The suction of the central vac is a lot stronger than a shop vac. It worked until my son brought me a 20 gallon steel barrel, which I'm using now.

The 5 gallon dill pickle buckets that are available from the Firehouse Sub chain have more ribs around the top third of them, so they are considerably stronger than the white buckets, and Firehouse Subs sells them for $2 each. Unfortunately, getting the dill pickle smell out of them is quite difficult, and they will make your shop smell like dill pickles when used. I had a strong craving for hamburgers and dill pickles when my vac was in use and nothing took the smell out of these buckets except about a week of direct Sunlight. Putting them out in the Sun seemed to work much better than anything else that I tried. For my central vacuum unit and Dust Deputy installation I ended up needing three of these pickle buckets stacked together to keep the top one from imploding.

Charley
 

keithncsu

New User
Keith
Following up on the dill pickle suggestion, you can ask any friends with a pool. The buckets that chlorine comes in are similar and sturdy. Again, smell is an issue but that can be resolved. That is all I've ever used and it has never collapsed. Shop vac only and with a different size coming in/out.
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
Following up on the dill pickle suggestion, you can ask any friends with a pool. The buckets that chlorine comes in are similar and sturdy. Again, smell is an issue but that can be resolved. That is all I've ever used and it has never collapsed. Shop vac only and with a different size coming in/out.
My Daughter has a pool. I'll have to ask her to save me a bucket or three.
 

nn4jw

Jim
Senior User
I bought several of those Firehouse Subs buckets some years ago. As others have said the smell can be pretty strong. It took me several months to get the smell out setting them outside in the sun. But the smell did eventually go away. Next time I might try filling them with a fairly strong baking soda solution to see if that neutralizes the acids better.
 

Tarhead

Mark
Corporate Member
You're sucking more air than you're supplying to the system. I had a problem with my sanders getting the abrasive too hot because they were being sucked too hard to the workpiece and did this. 1/2" hole in a Tee connector lid. Tape on when I need full suction and tape off when I need more air/less negative pressure.

 

Martin Roper

Martin
User
There are heavy blow-molded buckets in a variety of sizes out there that won't have this problem.

1593792509006.png


This one is 20 gallons.

The one below is 14.

1593792642284.png
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
There are heavy blow-molded buckets in a variety of sizes out there that won't have this problem.
I was looking at a few of those. If the bucket in a bucket doesn't work out, or if I need a bigger size that is probably the route I will take.
 

Charles Lent

Charley
Corporate Member
I did not have implosion problems when using my shop vac. It was after upgrading to a repurposed whole house vacuum unit that I had the bucket implosion problems. You don't need to worry about your bucket imploding until you upgrade to a higher level of suction than can be provided by a shop vac. Most any plastic bucket will survive when only a shop vac is the vacuum source.

Just trying to clarify this, as I don't seem to have done a well enough job the first time.

Charley
 

MarkE

Mark
Corporate Member
I did not have implosion problems when using my shop vac. It was after upgrading to a repurposed whole house vacuum unit that I had the bucket implosion problems. You don't need to worry about your bucket imploding until you upgrade to a higher level of suction than can be provided by a shop vac. Most any plastic bucket will survive when only a shop vac is the vacuum source.

Just trying to clarify this, as I don't seem to have done a well enough job the first time.

Charley
I am using just a shop vac. A Ridgid 12 gallon with 5.0 peak hp. I think Mark (Tarhead) got it right. The problem is the vacuum was designed based on a 2-1/2" inlet pipe. When the air flow is restricted by use of the 1-1/4" hose, and also by the air flow through the sander, especially when the sander pad is in contact with something being sanded, the vacuum just keeps sucking and not getting enough make up air. Somethings got to give. In this case it was the CV-06 pail.

I have returned the CV-06 back to servicing my drill press with 2-1/2" in and 2-1/2" out where it has not had a problem for the past couple of years or so. I bought a Dust Deputy to use with my sanders, Porter Cable QuikJig pocket hole jig, etc. The Dust Deputy kit came with two 5 gallon pails which I have stacked one inside the other, so far I have not collapsed the collection pail in testing and in service. Fingers crossed.
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Corporate Member
This is how I solved that potential problem in my collector system:



In the event all the blast gates are closed at one time, the valve pops up to allow airflow.

Since taking these photos I rotated the tee upwards and installed two additional 90 degree elbows to prevent dust accumulation on the valve itself. Something like this could also be done on a small scale.
 

Charles Lent

Charley
Corporate Member
A spring that would hold that plug closed unless the vacuum level went too high would be a great addition to your idea. The spring would need to be just the right tension, but would make that safety valve self resetting.

Charley
 

Gotcha6

Dennis
Corporate Member
A spring that would hold that plug closed unless the vacuum level went too high would be a great addition to your idea. The spring would need to be just the right tension, but would make that safety valve self resetting.

Charley
I thought about that. A bridge across the inlet with a hole drilled into it would be all you'd need and then a spring with a fender washer and nut. The only reason I didn't do it that way was I didn't have a spring but I had lotsa washers......
 

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