Can Two Dust Collectors be in the same line?

[MrAudio815]

Hey Everyone,

After getting my shop put more together and running DC pipes across the ceiling and down to my BS I have lost a lot of CFM (I think that is what I lost, besides my marbles). I was thinking of upgrading to a larger HP, but don't have the money, now that I bought the Jet 16/42.

I was wondering if a Cheap HF 1hp or so DC would work in line with my current DC and make more CFM's (Better suckage)?

I have the Delta 50-760 1.5hp I'd put the extra DC under the delta where the DC hose is and then attach the hoses from that to my tools. Would this Work???



Thanks~! :notworthy:

 

[garymuto]

I'ev wondered the same thing. It makes sense to me especially if you are not blowing from the first into the second unit. I think you need to take advantage of the filtration capacity of each otherwise the airflow would really be restricted.

 

[Sully]

I think there will be a negligible --if any-- effect of putting a second DC in series. What size lines are you running (4,5, or 6"); the larger the better with the fewest number of 90 degree bends will give you more CFM.

$0.02 J

 

[RayH]

Hopefully, someone who knows will answer, but seems to me that in series the lower-capacity HF unit would act as a constriction, slowing down the bigger unit. Now in parallel, .....:icon_scra

Good luck.

 

[dave]

I have the same DC and I have been looking for ways to increase its efficiency too. The simplest thing you can do that I think would have the most impact is remove the Y split on the intake and use a single 6" hose (pretty sure it's 6" and not 5"). Also, use the largest dust port you can on your tools and keep the hose length and fittings to a minimum (fittings like a T split increase friction).

How long is your duct work and what type?

From some reading I've done, this type of DC wopks best with one tool at a time and a 6 foot length of hose. I honestly don't think adding another DC in line will make much difference.

When I added about 12 feet of hose and two "T" fittings in my shop, I noticed a significant drop. I've now removed all of that and just use a single 6 foot length of 4" hose from the DC. Huge difference! When I finally get a larger hose, I know it will be ever better.

Oh, I also added a cartridge filter from Wynn Enviromental and removed the bag.

 

[NCGrimbo]

If you're going to get a second DC, why not just split the shop and have one DC work the tools on one side and the other DC work the remaining tools. This way you could increase the suction to the tools far away from your current DC.

I have no idea how combining them would work. :wsmile:

 

[jtdon99]

My understanding is if you connect 2 DC's in series it increases static pressure, putting them in parallel increase CFM.
Jim

 

[mxracer]

Hey Mathew,

I am running (and have been for about a year now) a setup similar to what you are asking about, and I really like it.

I have the HF 1HP DC mounted on the wall which all my machines feed into and that goes into a 55 gal drum with a Thien separator. I then connected my small Delta 1HP DC to the output of the drum. So it's in from the machines, thru the HF DC, into the cyclone, and out to the Delta DC.

It did in fact increase "suckage", as you put it. :wsmile: It allowed me to have 2 or 3 ports open at at time and still have decent suction and if I only have 1 open at a time it works great.

Another advantage I see of the second DC behind the cyclone is that normally you'd have either the output from the cyclone going outside or directly into some filter or you'd have a lot of dust in the filter of the normal DC. With this setup the cyclone captures most of the dust and debris and the Delta DC catches the small particles that make it thru but it doesn't load it up. The only time anything "real" makes it to the Delta DC is when I'm cleaning the floor and I'm sucking up A LOT of small particles at one time.

I can post/send pics if you or anyone else is interested and I'd be happy to share any more details again if you or anyone is interested.

 

[MrAudio815]

Hey Mathew,

I am running (and have been for about a year now) a setup similar to what you are asking about, and I really like it.

I have the HF 1HP DC mounted on the wall which all my machines feed into and that goes into a 55 gal drum with a Thien separator. I then connected my small Delta 1HP DC to the output of the drum. So it's in from the machines, thru the HF DC, into the cyclone, and out to the Delta DC.

It did in fact increase "suckage", as you put it. :wsmile: It allowed me to have 2 or 3 ports open at at time and still have decent suction and if I only have 1 open at a time it works great.

Another advantage I see of the second DC behind the cyclone is that normally you'd have either the output from the cyclone going outside or directly into some filter or you'd have a lot of dust in the filter of the normal DC. With this setup the cyclone captures most of the dust and debris and the Delta DC catches the small particles that make it thru but it doesn't load it up. The only time anything "real" makes it to the Delta DC is when I'm cleaning the floor and I'm sucking up A LOT of small particles at one time.

I can post/send pics if you or anyone else is interested and I'd be happy to share any more details again if you or anyone is interested.

Dan,


This is perfect~! I was sure someone from NCWW had to of tried this setup, or thought the way I did.

I would most certainly like some pictures and a guestimate on your part of the CFM. Or CFM of each individual DC.

I was just thinking that if I did have a little HF or I found a PSI DC for $168 from amazon free shipping with 660CFM. And put it inline with my DC then I would get a greater CFM. I get 1200 with the Delta and if I had the PSI at 660, I thought I might get 1800 CFM and that would greatly suck at each tool. At least in my mind it would, without having to buy an 1800 CFM DC.:nah:

Thanks again Dan~!

 

[MrAudio815]

If you're going to get a second DC, why not just split the shop and have one DC work the tools on one side and the other DC work the remaining tools. This way you could increase the suction to the tools far away from your current DC.

I have no idea how combining them would work. :wsmile:

I thought about just having a DC on either side of the shop, but I don't have a lot of room. Plus I'd only get 660 CFM from the PSI or HF DC and the tool I need reall suckage at is my Grizzly 19" BS. It has two ports. So I don't think 660 CFM's would be enough. It seemed like just enough at 1200 CFM's with a 20' hose on it when I was in NC.

Oh and I am running 4" piping. I still get great suckage at the lathe and TS. They are about 6' away each with two blast gates on each line which really stops the suckage on that line and provides great suckage on the other. Just not enough for the BS.

Thanks for everyones help and advice, it is greatly appreciated~! :notworthy: :eusa_clap

 

[Russ Denz]

Interesting idea!! I was just thinking of selling my 1HP HF mini DC and eventually my 1.5HP JDS DC to upgrade to a bigger (cyclonic) unit, but now I think I'm gonna wait and try this instead. I would really like to see your pics / diagrams. Plenny mahalos, brah!!:thumbs_up
Russ

 

[mxracer]

Dan,


This is perfect~! I was sure someone from North Carolina Woodworker had to of tried this setup, or thought the way I did.

I would most certainly like some pictures and a guestimate on your part of the CFM. Or CFM of each individual DC.

I was just thinking that if I did have a little HF or I found a PSI DC for $168 from amazon free shipping with 660CFM. And put it inline with my DC then I would get a greater CFM. I get 1200 with the Delta and if I had the PSI at 660, I thought I might get 1800 CFM and that would greatly suck at each tool. At least in my mind it would, without having to buy an 1800 CFM DC.:nah:

Thanks again Dan~!

Mathew,

Well according to advertising I'm getting somewhere close to 2150 CFM. In reality though I figure the HF unit (advertised at 1550) is pulling around 600-800 and the Delta (advertised at 650) is pulling around 500-600. I don't have a way of accurately measuring the CFM of the setup unfortunately. My "gauge" was that it had enough suction to keep up with my 20" planer taking 1/16 to 1/8th passes almost full width. That and having a few ports open like I said before.

If anyone is close to Lincolnton and wants to check it out, shop is open. :gar-Bi

I have a couple pics of the setup and the Thein baffle uploaded here on the forum.

I can get more detailed pics for you if you want also.

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

 

[MrAudio815]

Mathew,

Well according to advertising I'm getting somewhere close to 2150 CFM. In reality though I figure the HF unit (advertised at 1550) is pulling around 600-800 and the Delta (advertised at 650) is pulling around 500-600. I don't have a way of accurately measuring the CFM of the setup unfortunately. My "gauge" was that it had enough suction to keep up with my 20" planer taking 1/16 to 1/8th passes almost full width. That and having a few ports open like I said before.

If anyone is close to Lincolnton and wants to check it out, shop is open. :gar-Bi

I have a couple pics of the setup and the Thein baffle uploaded here on the forum.

I can get more detailed pics for you if you want also.

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

Dan,


Thanks a bunch~! These pictures are perfect. :notworthy: So my situation is sort of opposite of yours. The PSI 1hp DC I have my eye on only says it has 660 CFM's and my Delta says 1200 CFM's so the stronger DC would be last, instead of first like you have it.

Do you think it will still work as well? How many Hp is your HF and how much would you say they run? There's a HF about an hour plus from my house, and if I can get a 20% off coupon I may just get that instead. Ah I think you may have the 2hp HF here http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html That is only $10 more than the 1 hp PSI and double the CFM. Sweet~! Is this the one?

Also you said you get great suction at your planer??? The green 15 incher or larger planer??? :swoon: With the DC pipe going across the wall, up the wall, across the ceiling and down to your planer and it still has great suckage??? :elvis: WOW~!!! That is what I want for my BS, and jointer, which is on the same wall. Can I get a pic of that and about how far it is from your DC to your planer.


Thanks, thanks thanks~! :eusa_clap

 

[mxracer]

Dan,


Thanks a bunch~! These pictures are perfect. :notworthy: So my situation is sort of opposite of yours. The PSI 1hp DC I have my eye on only says it has 660 CFM's and my Delta says 1200 CFM's so the stronger DC would be last, instead of first like you have it.

Do you think it will still work as well? How many Hp is your HF and how much would you say they run? There's a HF about an hour plus from my house, and if I can get a 20% off coupon I may just get that instead. Ah I think you may have the 2hp HF here http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-industrial-5-micron-dust-collector-97869.html That is only $10 more than the 1 hp PSI and double the CFM. Sweet~! Is this the one?

Also you said you get great suction at your planer??? The green 15 incher or larger planer??? :swoon: With the DC pipe going across the wall, up the wall, across the ceiling and down to your planer and it still has great suckage??? :elvis: WOW~!!! That is what I want for my bandsaw, and jointer, which is on the same wall. Can I get a pic of that and about how far it is from your DC to your planer.


Thanks, thanks thanks~! :eusa_clap

I'm sure it would work if you had the more powerful DC at the back end of the cyclone. It would probably not be "as" efficient but it would work for sure. At one point I just had the HF DC running behind the cyclone alone and it worked "ok" but the dual setup beefed it up a good bit.

That is the HF DC that I bought. Found a coupon in one of the woodworking magazines. I did some research on it and it seemed everyone liked it for the $$. I'd have to say the same thing. Stand alone IMO it's not worth the original price, but at the discount price it's worth it, and using it with another DC is also worth it IMO. It's a lot cheaper than some and it does work.

The planer is 20" and I have not had it clog up yet. In linear feet the planer is about 30 feet from the DC and the longest run (to my RAS and Router table) is about 48 feet. That is all 4" pvc pipe except for the flex hose I use to share between machines, but is still 4". The 30 foot drop I move from planer to bandsaw to jointer and the 48 foot drop gets shared between the RAS and Router like I said. I'm sure I'd get a little better CFM if I did 6" but I wanted to try 4" first since it was cheaper and easier to find. It's worked out fine so I'm keeping it. I also could have made more drops but the way my shop is setup "sharing" drops worked out.

Here are the pics, if you want anything diff or more details just let me know. :wsmile:

In the first pic I have a drop for cleanup first, then goes up the wall and the last one to the right is the tablesaw. In the second pic you can see the two drops running across the ceiling for the bandsaw, planer, jointer, RAS and router.

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

 

[MrAudio815]

I'm sure it would work if you had the more powerful DC at the back end of the cyclone. It would probably not be "as" efficient but it would work for sure. At one point I just had the HF DC running behind the cyclone alone and it worked "ok" but the dual setup beefed it up a good bit.

That is the HF DC that I bought. Found a coupon in one of the woodworking magazines. I did some research on it and it seemed everyone liked it for the $$. I'd have to say the same thing. Stand alone IMO it's not worth the original price, but at the discount price it's worth it, and using it with another DC is also worth it IMO. It's a lot cheaper than some and it does work.

The planer is 20" and I have not had it clog up yet. In linear feet the planer is about 30 feet from the DC and the longest run (to my RAS and Router table) is about 48 feet. That is all 4" pvc pipe except for the flex hose I use to share between machines. The 30 foot drop I move from planer to bandsaw to jointer and the 48 foot drop gets shared between the RAS and Router like I said. I'm sure I'd get a little better CFM if I did 6" but I wanted to try 4" first since it was cheaper and easier to find. It's worked out fine so I'm keeping it. I also could have made more drops but the way my shop is setup "sharing" drops worked out.

Here are the pics, if you want anything diff or more details just let me know. :wsmile:

In the first pic I have a drop for cleanup first, then goes up the wall and the last one to the right is the tablesaw. In the second pic you can see the two drops running across the ceiling for the bandsaw, planer, jointer, RAS and router.

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

Dan,

The pictures are perfect~! I have 4" metal piping I got from another in NC. He upgraded to 6" and gave it awaw for free. So my setup is similar to your. I have one line going to the TS right from the DC. Then two lines from the other Y port from the DC, one to the Lathe and the other across the ceiling to the BS, Jointer, and RT. That I share/move to each tool. So I think I have less piping than you and my suckage is horable. So I think this HF 2hp DC will totaly upgrade my suction.

I have a 20% off coupon and HF is selling the 2hp 1550CFM DC for $179 on their website. Thats only $10 more than the PSI 1hp 660CFM DC.

So I am calling the Ogden HF today and seeing if they have one, then 1hr road trip here I come.


Thanks A BUNCH DAN~! PS you have a great looking Shop and the Dust collection looks great. Oh and what did you do with the extra HF DC cart and bags? Since you just mounted the motor to the wall?

 

[jhreed]

Dan can improve his dust collection system by changing the plumbing a bit. He has the suction from the Delta dc and the discharge from the HF dc going into Thein separator. In other works he is sucking and blowing into the same vessel, negating the effectiveness of his system. He needs to pipe the suction from the HF to the separator and replace the filter on the discharge of the HF. This will make his system much more effective.
James

 

[mxracer]

Dan,

The pictures are perfect~! I have 4" metal piping I got from another in NC. He upgraded to 6" and gave it awaw for free. So my setup is similar to your. I have one line going to the tablesaw right from the DC. Then two lines from the other Y port from the DC, one to the Lathe and the other across the ceiling to the bandsaw, Jointer, and RT. That I share/move to each tool. So I think I have less piping than you and my suckage is horable. So I think this HF 2hp DC will totaly upgrade my suction.

I have a 20% off coupon and HF is selling the 2hp 1550CFM DC for $179 on their website. Thats only $10 more than the PSI 1hp 660CFM DC.

So I am calling the Ogden HF today and seeing if they have one, then 1hr road trip here I come.


Thanks A BUNCH DAN~! PS you have a great looking Shop and the Dust collection looks great. Oh and what did you do with the extra HF DC cart and bags? Since you just mounted the motor to the wall?

Thanks for the complements Mathew, it's been a while in the making and more to come.

The extra HF DC stuff is in the "attic" of the shop just taking up space. :wsmile:

 

[mxracer]

Dan can improve his dust collection system by changing the plumbing a bit. He has the suction from the Delta dc and the discharge from the HF dc going into Thein separator. In other works he is sucking and blowing into the same vessel, negating the effectiveness of his system. He needs to pipe the suction from the HF to the separator and replace the filter on the discharge of the HF. This will make his system much more effective.
James

James,

What you say makes sense but when I tried that setup (and a few other crazy ones) when I was putting things together it didn't seem to work as well. It just seemed that no matter what configuration I tried (Delta first then HF or vice versa) when they were pulling thru the separator in a "normal" configuration it was a little less efficient. It just seemed that the 55gal drum (especially when empty) killed the suction at the machines. The way it is creates a great cyclone in the barrel and catches most of the debris and I still have good flow at the machines.

Kind of to your point, it could be that the HF DC is stout enough without going thru the separator to pull all the plumbing well and the delta is having a negligible effect on the suction at the machines. It does seem to really help with the cyclone effect of the baffle, I maybe have 1/4 of an inch of fine dust in the bottom of the bag since I installed it, I didn't have to run a line outside, and if I ever overflow the barrel it will be caught by the bag.

All that being said you do make me want to go out and reconfigure and try it again though. :gar-Bi

It's still a good point and I'd be interested in Mathew testing the same thing(s) with his setup to see which way seems to work better for him.

 

[MrAudio815]

Dan can improve his dust collection system by changing the plumbing a bit. He has the suction from the Delta dc and the discharge from the HF dc going into Thein separator. In other works he is sucking and blowing into the same vessel, negating the effectiveness of his system. He needs to pipe the suction from the HF to the separator and replace the filter on the discharge of the HF. This will make his system much more effective.
James

Hey James,


I am not sure I follow your example. Can you explain in more detail? Maybe a drawing of what you mean? :icon_scra

Thanks a bunch~!