cabinet face frame options

[HardRock]

I'll be starting some cabinet work soon, bath/laundry room first. I'm looking for options for fastening the face frames together.

face nailing
biscuits and glue
pocket screw from back side

?

These first cab's will probably be popular solid wood frames and doors, with veneer ply sides or solid popular sides if the popular stock holds out. Finish is most lileky to be a semi-dark stain (to match the store bought vanity mirror/cab the wife bought) and poly.

I want to stay away from the face nailing as I don't want the look or the bother of the filled holes.

 

[DaveO]

To fasten the face frame together, as in making them, pocket screws are the best method, although you can use biscuits if you have a PC plate jointer and can use their FF biscuits. To attach the frames to the carcass, many people use a daddo in the back and glue, or in this case you could use #10 or 20 bisciuts and glue. Be careful staining Poplar, it has a tendence to blotch, and BORG wood conditioners don't do squat to help:BangHead: :BangHead: :BangHead: BTDT:eusa_doh:
Dave

 

[Mountaincraft]

Make and mount (if feasable) the carcass first, biscuit the rails and stiles to the carcass, pocket screw the rails and stiles together. I mount the long stiles first, then custom fit the rails in between. A 1/8 in roundover on all face sides of the rail and stile boards adds a great touch and makes the joints easier. I minimize blotching on poplar (or most any wood) by first wiping surface with 1/2 lb cut dewax shellac (spit coat), then using watco danish oil as the stain. This super thin shellac soaks far into the board evening stain absorbtion and actually strengthens the attachment of any finish to the board. It will, however, make the stain lighter because it isn't absorbed as deeply into the wood. You can blend various colors of the danish oil and coat as many times as necessary for darkness. It will slowly build up a sheen with this technique. If you want a hand rubbed, faster darkening appearance, skip the spit coat. Danish oil blotches less than stain. If you want a finish, allow danish oil to dry thoroughly, apply another wipe on spit coat, then apply whatever finish you want. Don't sand danish oil.

 

[Mountaincraft]

Oops, almost forgot. Easiest spit coat for most shoppers.

Ingredients:
1 qt. Zinsser Bulls Eye Seal Coat (just 2lb cut dewax).
1 gallon new empty metal paint can with lid.
1 gallon denatured alcohol.

Directions:
Pour Zinsser's into gallon can.
Top off with denatured alcohol.
Mark (such as 1/2 lb cut -01/06).

It keeps full properties for about a year. Remember to keep sealed, the alcohol evaporates quickly. If I leave the top off for a while, I guesstimate the alcohol evaporated and add a shot.

 

[McRabbet]

William (aka Mountaincraft): You've added some great posts today -:eusa_clap - but you need to post a new thread under the "Who We Are" Forum to introduce yourself and give us all some info on you, your shop and your projects. Obviously, you're an experienced ww'er and we all are happy to have you join the forum -- I'm a fellow western NC resident from Hendersonville and truly enjoy this great website. Welcome aboard and keep sharing! While you're at it, ask for a Gallery under the "Other Links" option on the main menu bar, 'cause it you don't show pictures, it didn't happen!
Rob

 

[Steve D]

I'd echo the pocket screws for the face frame but I find it easier build the whole face frame completely and the case completely and combine the two after finishing. Leave the sides of the case 3/8" proud of the bottom and bury that in a dado in the stiles. You can also use biscuits to align the bottom rail and bottom of the cabinet.

 

[D L Ames]

Another echo here from me too on using pocket hole joinery for your face frames. Like SteveD mentioned, Make your face frames first and then attach the carcase with a dado and glue. I believe Woodguy1975 recently completed a large number of kitchen and bath cabinets using this method and maybe he has some in-progress photos he can share with you.

D L

 

[HardRock]

Thanks for all the info, 'specially about the finishing tips. Hopefully this weekend I'll get some of the popular planned for samples so the wife can get to matching finishes.

 

[wapitiscat]

One more vote for pocket screw joinery for joining the rails and stiles. I was also going to suggest just gluing on the face face to the carcass. I've not thought about the dado option. Does the dado add strength (more glue surface) or just help alignment? Sometimes I'll put brads in the carcass edge and snip them off to give some "teeth" to grab the face frame. You'll want to use all your clamps too especially on long rails or stiles. One more thing, build the face frame slightly oversized on the outside dimensions and clean it up with a flush trim bit or block plane after assembly and glue up. I think there was an American Woodworker (or similar mag) article describing this and other little tricks for face frame attachment.

 

[Steve D]

The dado adds strength, helps with alignment and squaring of the case.