CA Glue advice

[DavidK]

I have seen CA glue used on Youtube, but I have no experience with it, but I do have a lot of questions...

Beyond being really fast, does it have other advantages? What are its disadvantages? When should I NOT use it?

I see there are different thicknesses. What would you recommend for "having around the shop"? The accelerator comes in a spray can or a pump. Which do you prefer?

Thanks for your feedback,
David

 

[Hmerkle]

David,
GREAT question!
As usual you will hear the typical "It depends..."
Unfortunatly it depends on what you are doing
I liked this test by James Wright (

) but he obviously tests more than just CA glue.

The main disadvantage of CA is that it is not a gap filler and it typically is not flexible (you can buy a style of CA glue that is (somewhat) flexible...

There will be many who also like a brand, but most CA is the same product unless it was engineered for a specific function...
I keep a thin and medium and a gel on hand almost all the time.
I have used a mediium and added sawdust and filled a gap, but I prefer to use epoxy for that task, I just think it works better!
I have been happiest with the aerosol version of accelerator

I hope that helps?

 

[FlyingRon]

I agree with Hank. One of it's major problem is it's "brittle" (I.e. not flexible).
One thing to realize (though it may seem counterintuitive) that CA needs water to "dry".
My favorite form of CA is that it now gets sold in "single serving" tubes so you don't have to worry about trying to get the bottle open or it being dried out next time you go for it.

 

[Charles Lent]

I've worked with CA glue since the early 60's, when it was called Eastman 910, and patented by Eastman Kodak. It sets very quickly when it is spread thin, like when being squeezed between the two parts that you are assembling. It's not a crack filler. The thinner you can make the joint, the faster it will set. There are thick and thin versions. The thicker version works best for most woodworking projects. An aerosol accelerator lets you hold the glued pieces together and then just spray the joint for it to instantly set.

If you get it on your fingers you will likely discover that you have glued your fingers together. Safety glasses are an absolute must when working with it. If you should manage to glue body parts together, quickly putting warm water on the glue joint will soften it. Acetone will also soften it. Whatever you do, don't forcibly peel your fingers or body parts apart because it will tear the skin free of one or both when you do. A woman on Scroll Saw Forums recently spilled a bottle of CA glue on her foot and sock. Then removed the sock and the skin came with it. She has a very nasty wound that is going to take a very long time to heal. Photos were included in the post. She thinks the glue burned her, but her wound looks to me like the skin stayed on the sock when she pulled it off. The reaction does give off some heat in the setting process, but not enough to burn that bad.

I learned early on to keep the bottle of CA glue pressed into a hole in a thick piece of foam plastic about 4-6" square. This makes it nearly impossible to tip the bottle over by accidentally bumping it. The small bottle is easier to handle this way too. I also make certain that the cone shaped dispensing lid is installed when using it, never just with the flat storage cap removed. This cone shaped dispensing lid prevents large amounts of glue from coming out all at once if it should get tipped over, and only the few drops are needed at a time anyway, so why risk a big spill. Thin surgical gloves will help keep you from gluing your fingers together, but the glove fingers may get permanently glued together, so disposable gloves are recommended

Charley

 

[Sam Knight]

I agree with everyone above and would like to add some times when you may use ca glue. Projects I most often use ca glue on would have to be on my turnings. Things like pens and bottle stoppers. The ca is applied in multiple layers to build up surface that is then sanded and polished into a high gloss finish. I also use ca glue on hair line cracks on my bowls and between the bark and sap wood to help prevent the bark from falling off on natural edge bowls. Before I started turning I don't think I ever even knew what ca glue was. One tip when using ca is to apply ca to one of the pieces you are joining and spray the accelerator on the other then join the pieces together.

 

[JimD]

I've used it some but need to keep it on hand too. I've never had an issue with glueing my fingers together. I've had it stick this way but there is plenty of dead skin on the outside of my fingers to peel off so I can separate them. The top of my feet would be a different matter. Getting it on you isn't advisable, I agree, unless you have a cut to close. It can be handy for first aid too.

 

[Jeff]

You can get small tubes of CA glue which are handy for small project needs like filling a small crack. It's generally not used as a woodworking joint glue like epoxy or the other Titebond glues and hide glue.

Krazy Glue: Fast Drying Super Glue that instantly bond to all materials

Super glue that is krazy strong, krazy fast. It works in as little as 30 seconds, forming an extremely strong bond on all kinds of surfaces - Krazy Glue

www.krazyglue.com

Titebond CA glues are available as thin, medium, and thick. The medium may be the most useful.

Water	viscosity = 1
Titebond thin	30-50
medium	120
thick	2400

CA glues cure by the presence of moisture (which is already in the wood) so the activator isn't necessary.

 

[bowman]

Also useful for temporarily gluing runners to sleds (table saw, band saw, etc); jig construction

 

[Steve_Honeycutt]

CA glue store in a refrigerator will last much longer. I have had some bottles last up to a year. While moisture helps it dry quicker, too much moisture will cause it to turn white, such as when you blow on it to make it dry faster.

Like Sam mentioned, CA can be used for a finish generally on small items, such as pens or rings. It can be tricky to get the process just right for a good finish.

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned CA for first aid. In some medical situations, it can be used to close wounds.

I have also heard of it being used in conjunction with PVA glue. The CA glue is to hold the parts together while the PVA glue is used for long-term strength. If trying this, the two glues cannot be mixed or the CA glue will instantly harden. The CA glue would have to be used in a certain area and the PVA would have to be used in a different area of the joint.

Accelerator is used to get a near instant bond. Normal dry time (where the joint stays together) for me is about a minute without an accelerator. I prefer the aerosol. I use an accelerator when I am applying CA as a finish, because it allows me to build up the finish quickly.

A CA joint will come apart under high heat or a shearing force. When fingers get glued together, I first try sliding them apart, usually this works. Pulling them apart does not work very well. Gluing two pieces of aluminum together and then drilling a hole has been a problem for me because the heat generated during the drilling process will cause the joint to fail.

I always have CA glue on hand for various projects and I generally use the medium.

 

[Jeff]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned CA for first aid. In some medical situations, it can be used to close wounds.

Small paper cuts and dry, cracked skin heals nicely with Krazyglue (CA glue). Surgeons also use it as a topical closure on open incisions (it peels off in about 2 weeks).

 

[Charles Lent]

Here is the link in Scroll Saw Forums where the woman spilled the CA glue on her foot (beware- it contains graphic photos). Don't do this at home.

Beware C.A.Glue !!

Today I accidentally knocked a small bottle of CA glue over whilst applying it to a break in a piece I was cutting. It cemented my jeans to my thigh instantly and welded my Crocks and socks to my feet. Oh boy it felt like I was on fire. The result is I now look like this Just a photo of my foot...

www.scrollsawvillage.com

Charley

 

[Gotcha6]

As an adjunct to this topic, how does everyone fare with the UV setting version?

 

[mkepke]

Here is the link in Scroll Saw Forums where the woman spilled the CA glue on her foot (beware- it contains graphic photos). Don't do this at home.

Beware C.A.Glue !!

Today I accidentally knocked a small bottle of CA glue over whilst applying it to a break in a piece I was cutting. It cemented my jeans to my thigh instantly and welded my Crocks and socks to my feet. Oh boy it felt like I was on fire. The result is I now look like this Just a photo of my foot...

www.scrollsawvillage.com

Charley

Charley - CA glue reacts with cotton and wool to produce intense heat.

"The authors present 2 cases of cyanoacrylate glue (“Super Glue”) burns, with a review of the literature and a discussion on the mechanism of action. The authors found all reported cases were with domestic — not medical-grade — cyanoacrylate glue in the presence of cotton fabric. Often erroneously designated as chemical burns, they are thermal burns caused by an intensive exothermic reaction. Cotton acts as a highly potent catalyst, speeding up the polymerization reaction leading to high-peak temperatures capable of causing burns and spontaneous ignition of the fabric. "

Cyanoacrylate Burn Injuries: Two Unusual Cases and a Review of the Literature

www.woundsresearch.com

-Mark

 

[DavidK]

Thanks to everyone for the most excellent advice. Thank you for sharing your advice and experiences. I have picked up some CA and look forward to trying it out.

 

[Pop Golden]

I have used CA for a good many years. I stock thin & thick along with the aerosol accelerator. Unlike some of my other friends I have found no use for medium. I keep thin for hairline cracks in china, wood etc. The thick IS gap filling. That one of my uses. I have found with some experimenting that it has great pull apart strength, but suffers from low sear strength. I have never used thin without taking a bath in it. It is thinner than water and will go all over the place. The accelerator is not water, but an ammonia based product. This from a tech at Tightbond. I use only aerosol. It seem to work better with coverage. Nothing very bad, but I've burned heck out of my fingers with thin & accelerator.

Pop

 

[Hmerkle]

The accelerator is not water, but an ammonia based product. This from a tech at Tightbond. I use only aerosol.
Pop

I thought the accelerator was acetone? learned something new!
I thought someone mentioned using Baking soda, can't find it now, but in the article below it is mentioned...
There is also a mention of alcohol as an accelerator - I wonder if isopropyl alcohol would work?
I went searching and found this and thought it was interesting:

Tech Tips - Good to Know About Superglue

 

[Rwe2156]

Beyond being really fast, does it have other advantages? What are its disadvantages? When should I NOT use it?

Of course the biggest advantage is, of course, instant adhesion. Best to just use the aerosol accelerator.

I use it mostly for repairs, making jigs, etc. I like the fact it doesn't interfere with finish.

Can't think of a disadvantage other than you have to be careful with it.

I see there are different thicknesses. What would you recommend for "having around the shop"? The accelerator comes in a spray can or a pump. Which do you prefer?

Keep some thin and medium around. Thin mostly for repairs.

I use the FastCap & Titebond products.

 

[Jeff]

I thought the accelerator was acetone? learned something new!
I thought someone mentioned using Baking soda, can't find it now, but in the article below it is mentioned...
There is also a mention of alcohol as an accelerator - I wonder if isopropyl alcohol would work?
I went searching and found this and thought it was interesting:

Tech Tips - Good to Know About Superglue

Moisture is a catalyst necessary for the glue to polymerize (think gluing your finger together) so accelerators aren't needed with wood because there's already moisture present. An accelerator may be useful for surfaces that don't contain inherent moisture (metal, glass, china), but simply misting the surface very lightly with water is just as effective as using an accelerator that you bought.

It's organic chemistry which is my professional training background.

 

[Hmerkle]

Moisture is a catalyst necessary for the glue to polymerize (think gluing your finger together) so accelerators aren't needed with wood because there's already moisture present. An accelerator may be useful for surfaces that don't contain inherent moisture (metal, glass, china), but simply misting the surface very lightly with water is just as effective as using an accelerator that you bought.

It's organic chemistry which is my professional training background.

but, as far as I know water does't smell and accelerators have a distinct "smell" (alcohol or acetone or ???)
While I agree that "accelerators aren't needed with wood " if you have ever stood there waiting for "Instant glue" to cure with two pieces of wood, you know accelerator sure helps!
but later today I am going to try the baking soda "Homemade accelerator" (1/2 teaspoon of baking soda into 1/4 cup of purified water. )
I am going to try water alone as well...

 

[Jeff]

but, as far as I know water does't smell and accelerators have a distinct "smell" (alcohol or acetone or ???)

The TP-10 accelerator contains acetone as the solvent and the actual activator is a low odor amine at about 1-5% (similar to the Titebond accelerator).

CAS No	Chemical name	Quantity
	EC No	Index No	REACH No
	Classification according to Regulation (EC) No. 1272/2008 [CLP]
67-64-1	acetone; propan-2-one; propanone	50 - 100 %
	200-662-2	606-001-00-8
	Flam. Liq. 2, Eye Irrit. 2, STOT SE 3; H225 H319 H336 EUH066
99-97-8	N,N-dimethyl-p-toluidine	1-<5%
	202-805-4	612-056-00-9
	Acute Tox. 3, Acute Tox. 3, Acute Tox. 3, STOT RE 2, Aquatic Chronic 3; H331 H311 H301 H373 ** H412