Breadboard assembly question

Status
Not open for further replies.

lwhughes149

New User
Lorraine
I am just getting ready to cut my tenons and the mortise for my trestle tabletop and would appreciate some help. I have made two breadboards in the past, one for the trestletable top for my son and his wife and I also made one for the walnut secretary. This top has two sections with a 5" breadboard in the middle and a 3" on both ends. I drew the plans up with the plan to made the tenons 1", I can already see that the glue up with be a bear. I plan to glue up one piece at the time. What to you think of the 1" tenon, does that sound like something any of you would do? BTW, the tabletop is 81" long. Thanks for the thoughts and Merry Christmas. Lorraine
 

cpowell

Chuck
Senior User
Lorraine, could you give us a little bit more detail on the top construction? I'm guessing you are making two glued up sections for right and left side of the table top and will use breadboard ends and also a "breadboard middle" - to join the two top panels together. Is this correct?

How thick is the top? What support will you have under the top?

Are you asking if the tenons should be 1 inch LONG? How thick will you make the tenons?


Chuck
 

Alan in Little Washington

Alan Schaffter
Corporate Member
I have some of the same questions as Chuck including how wide is the center breadboard? If the table top is supported in the middle, then 1/2" - 1" long tenons should be fine. If it is not, I'd go longer 1 1/2" - 2". Also, if the top is not supported in the middle, there will be a lot of stress across the grain (weakest direction) of the breadboard.
 

lwhughes149

New User
Lorraine
Chuck and Allen you are both correct. If you look down on the top you will see three breadboard sections which will hold the entire top together. I made the boards just over 1" thick. The rail that holds the legs together is 1 3/8 inch thick and will have a support attached in the middle to support the top. I think I could use less than an inch for the tenon but one inch seemed like a good even figure. The breadboards are 3 1/4" on the outer ends and 5 1/4" on the middle. I started out trying to get 1 3/8" thickness for the top but had to make it slightly thinner in order to clean up on side. I don't purchase first quality lumber so I often find myself making do. If I get an agreement on the 1" I will go with that. You know how it is you just want someone else who makes furniture to give you some opinions before you take that last step. Thanks for the help guys, wouldn't do it without your help. Lorraine
Merry Christmas
 

cpowell

Chuck
Senior User
Chuck and Allen you are both correct. If you look down on the top you will see three breadboard sections which will hold the entire top together. I made the boards just over 1" thick. The rail that holds the legs together is 1 3/8 inch thick and will have a support attached in the middle to support the top. I think I could use less than an inch for the tenon but one inch seemed like a good even figure. The breadboards are 3 1/4" on the outer ends and 5 1/4" on the middle. I started out trying to get 1 3/8" thickness for the top but had to make it slightly thinner in order to clean up on side. I don't purchase first quality lumber so I often find myself making do. If I get an agreement on the 1" I will go with that. You know how it is you just want someone else who makes furniture to give you some opinions before you take that last step. Thanks for the help guys, wouldn't do it without your help. Lorraine
Merry Christmas

Lorraine,

I'm not stalling on answering your question, I have been hoping that a few of the guys on this site that really KNOW how to make furniture would chime in. I'll give you my take and hopefully someone with more experience will validate my advice or offer a compromise. :)

If I were building that table using the two laminated top panels with a breadboard center then I would make the breadboard tenons 1 inch long, 3/8 thick.

If your current design will support the center at more than a single point then it should be fine. I just don't want to see the table fail if/when someone sits on the edge around the center of the table. The breadboard joint does NOT add much resistance to a bending force.

I can think of two different ways to beef up the support for this design.

1. Modify the base design and use two rails - one on each side - to support the top from underneath. These rails would run between the trestle tops and could be M&T into the trestle top. The purpose of the side rails is NOT to reduce racking but to provide a means of supporting the vertical load at the weak center breadboard area. The rails could be two inches wide and could be set in 10-12 inches from the sides to keep them from being prominent.

2. A second idea would be to add a cross piece on top of the large 1 3/8 thick rail that goes between your trestle ends. This could use a simple edgeways cross halving joint. The cross piece doesn't need to be thick and could taper to the ends (toward the outside of the table). The top member of the joint could extend far enough toward each side to provide support for the weak breadboard center. I actually like this approach. It's very simple to construct and would allow your center stretcher to carry the load. I wish I was capable of sketching these ideas but am CAD-challenged. If your planned 1 3/8 inch thick rail is located too low to work than simply add an additional rail for this option.

The whole point of my response is just to warn you that the center joints on that table are subject to failure if you don't provide additional support from underneath. I don't like the idea of just a single point support in the center of the table.

I'm hoping someone a little smarter than me will respond. Does anyone else have any ideas?

Keep in mind that it is a little bit tough to recommend a solution without seeing your base design.


Chuck
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
I agree with Chuck's responses, and contrary to his comments, I would say he does quite well on building furniture.

One other question, how are you going to attach the breadboard ends?
 

lwhughes149

New User
Lorraine
Chuck and Travis, I didn't expect a quick reply because of the holiday's however I knew someone would come up with the help I was looking for and I must say I am not disappointed. Thanks to both of you. I will print out your suggestions Chuck and one of them I will use. I have a support in the middle of the top as well as the two supports that go with the legs, so there will be three points of support. More is always better. I will come back in a couple of days and let everyone know what I have ended up with. I hope to have the table in the house within two weeks. Thanks again guys. Lorraine Happy New Year to all
 

lwhughes149

New User
Lorraine
To Chuck and Travis, just getting back to the computer after 3 weeks of fighting a bug. If either of you have Norm's book with the trestle table you will understand the construction of the base for my table. There are two legs consisting of three pieces that are mortised together, there is a rail that connects the two legs together however the rail is half way up the leg. Chuck, that means I would have to add another rail across the top. Travis, the end breadboards are just the average breadboard with a tenon. It is three inches wide. This is getting complicated but to be on the positive side, it does provide training. Does anyone have Norm's book with the trestle table? Let me put my thinking cap back on and give this some additional thought. Lorraine:BangHead:
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
To Chuck and Travis, just getting back to the computer after 3 weeks of fighting a bug. If either of you have Norm's book with the trestle table you will understand the construction of the base for my table. There are two legs consisting of three pieces that are mortised together, there is a rail that connects the two legs together however the rail is half way up the leg. Chuck, that means I would have to add another rail across the top. Travis, the end breadboards are just the average breadboard with a tenon. It is three inches wide. This is getting complicated but to be on the positive side, it does provide training. Does anyone have Norm's book with the trestle table? Let me put my thinking cap back on and give this some additional thought. Lorraine:BangHead:

Yep, have Norm's book, and it is a good source to follow.
 

lwhughes149

New User
Lorraine
Travis, after looking at Norm's book you can see what I am up against. I know I have to beef up the support in the middle of the table. Can you see any other suggestions that I might consider? I am ready to attach the middle support that you see in the book. Do you see anything that I might be able to do with that support that would add to the support? When I look at the legs I can't see any way to add an additional rail to the top for the added support. Lorraine
 

Dutchman

New User
Buddy
Loraine,
I am not familiar with your desin, but you have to be careful if I understand correctly that you are joining the boards in the middle. THis might be a recipe for sagging. Is there a way to add a sub top, something that runs the almost the full length? If you have no aprons, you might could use a piece of quality plywood, and trim out the edges with some moulding.
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
The plan in the book shows a center brace and if you are doing that and it is supported by the rail then I don't think you should have any problems at all. That is not an insignificant rail and it should be substantial enough to prevent any sagging.

BTW, you made me dig out my books, which isn't a big deal, but I thought Norm only did two books, but it turns out that I have three. Now, I have to go back and read through them again.
 

lwhughes149

New User
Lorraine
Buddy, let me see if I understand you. Are you suggesting that I take a piece of plywood and attach it to the underside of the assembled table? I could then continue as the book suggested. If I make it just undersize, it will not be visible from the top or sides but would add additional strength.
Travis, you have seen the plan in the book, what do you think, would this be a good idea. I do have concerns about the strength in the middle because of the way I have planned for the top to go together. I have first quality 1/2" birch plywood that I could attach to the underside once it is glued up. That brings up another question, how would you attach the plywood to the underside? Thanks guys for the help. I would like to know that this table will be here when I am long gone. Buddy, now that I think about it, am not sure that a band visible from the outside, wouldn't be a good idea as well. That band would give added strength to the breadboards on the ends or I could add the band at the ends only of the plywood. I am still under the weather but as soon as possible I will be back in the shop. Lorraine
 

Travis Porter

Travis
Corporate Member
If you are following the plans it calls for a middle support and I don't think you need anything additional. If you are not doing the middle support, I don't think plywood is going to do a whole lot for you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Premier Sponsor

Our Sponsors

LATEST FOR SALE LISTINGS

Top