Bowl Turning-----HELP

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David Turner

David
Corporate Member
I finally got around to trying to turn some bowls. The first was a 6" diameter lace-wood bowl with a bowl gouge. I muddled through it (the bowl turning class at NCSU was cancelled; not enough participants) and got a reasonably smooth bowl. The problem is the end grain areas. I can not get those areas to sand smooth. Second bowl is cherry turned with Easy Wood carbide tools. (I bought the carbide inserts and made the rest) I am experiencing the same problem with the end grain.

I started with P100 grit, then 150, then 180, 240, 320 and even went to 400 on the cherry. No luck. Decided to go back and try 50 grit, and then go through the other grits. No luck; just have a lot more scratches everywhere to sand out.

Suggestions?

David Turner
North Raleigh

P.S. You would think with the last name of Turner, I would be good at this turning!
 

Dee2

Board of Directors, Vice President
Gene
Staff member
Corporate Member
Sanding takes sealer and a light touch.
 

awldune

Sam
User
For each grit, hand sand any problem spots after you sand under power. This should help. When sanding with the lathe running, lowering your RPMs will help some too.
 

Roy G

Roy
Senior User
Do you have reverse on your lathe? Do you have a sanding disc on a drill? Both of those help a lot, but you'll still get tear out on the end grain. The Easy wood tools are scrapers, so you should see more tear out than with using the bowl gouge. Try taking your final cut after you put a good edge on the gouge and only take a very small cut. Sometimes you can improve the surface by putting some finish on the piece and sanding after it dries. The finish can stiffen the fibers so they sand easier. Were the blanks dried or were they green? Green blanks are a pleasure to turn and dried ones sometimes are a royal pain.

Roy G
 

walnutjerry

Jerry
Senior User
David----------take a rag and saturate it with mineral oil and wipe over the end grain to the point you have moistened the end grain pores then with a sharp bowl gouge take a very light cut. I saw this tip on Utube a while back and it worked for me. It will drastically reduce the tearout. However-----it may affect the finish if you use anything other than mineral oil afterward.

Jerry
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
Sharp tool, light cut, don’t scrape. Easy wood tools can work but not the way most people use them.
 

Flute Maker

Mike
User
I finally got around to trying to turn some bowls. The first was a 6" diameter lace-wood bowl with a bowl gouge. I muddled through it (the bowl turning class at NCSU was cancelled; not enough participants) and got a reasonably smooth bowl. The problem is the end grain areas. I can not get those areas to sand smooth. Second bowl is cherry turned with Easy Wood carbide tools. (I bought the carbide inserts and made the rest) I am experiencing the same problem with the end grain.

I started with P100 grit, then 150, then 180, 240, 320 and even went to 400 on the cherry. No luck. Decided to go back and try 50 grit, and then go through the other grits. No luck; just have a lot more scratches everywhere to sand out.

Suggestions?

David Turner
North Raleigh

P.S. You would think with the last name of Turner, I would be good at this turning!

Naaaaaaaaaaa David the last name Turner doesnt work for me either lol!!!!
 

David Turner

David
Corporate Member
Received a lot of great suggestions and now I need to try and experiment and see which one(s) work for me.
Thanks guys !

David Turner
North Raleigh
 

walnutjerry

Jerry
Senior User
David--------Spritzing with water will soften the end grain fibers also----------it just takes longer for the fibers to soften. If you are going to finish with something other than mineral oil you may want to go with water.

Jerry
 

David Turner

David
Corporate Member
After re-reading this thread I noticed some questions that I never answered.

Roy G: Yes my lathe is reversing and variable speed (Jet 1642). I do not have a sanding disc for my drill motor. Are these available at Woodcraft/Klingspor? All of the blanks I have in house now are dried but I want to try turning some wet materials. That was one reason for signing up for the NCSU bowl turning class as our own Jim Wallace had prepared some red maple blanks for the students to turn.

Two major hurdles I need to overcome and the reason for the training is 1. how to sharpen the bowl gouge and 2. what part of the cutting edge(s) to use. Those were the items I had hoped to learn in the class. Jim has graciously asked me to come to his shop and he indicated he would help with these items.

Again, thank you for your suggestions.

David Turner
North raleigh
 

Mike Mills

New User
Mike
Getting up with a turner should help the most.
In the mean time....
What other said about sharp tools and very light cuts.
I use thinned shellac as a sealer since most any finish will go over it and it dries in minutes.
I thin with at least 50% DNA and usually 2 pts DNA to 1 pt shellac.
I agree it is hard to get a clean cut with most carbide. Brian Havens has a pretty good video on sheer scraping with a bowl gouge or if you have a standard scraper, sheer scraping with it. I normally use a scraper myself in sheer position.
I don't know how you are cutting. Bowls are cut the opposite of spindles on the outside meaning you cut from the low area to the high. Cutting high to low the grain is unsupported in normal bowl orientation and results in much more tearout.
You may also want to look up Lyle Jamieson on youtube; both he and Brian have several very good videos on the four types of cuts with bowl gouges.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrp3mrAMFSs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDIvtr7StuA
Lastly I like Vince's for disc sanding supplies but Klinspor is good also. I find Woodcraft lacking in quality and overprice but maybe I just bought the wrong ones from them.
 

chris_goris

Chris
Senior User
After re-reading this thread I noticed some questions that I never answered.

Roy G: Yes my lathe is reversing and variable speed (Jet 1642). I do not have a sanding disc for my drill motor. Are these available at Woodcraft/Klingspor? All of the blanks I have in house now are dried but I want to try turning some wet materials. That was one reason for signing up for the NCSU bowl turning class as our own Jim Wallace had prepared some red maple blanks for the students to turn.

Two major hurdles I need to overcome and the reason for the training is 1. how to sharpen the bowl gouge and 2. what part of the cutting edge(s) to use. Those were the items I had hoped to learn in the class. Jim has graciously asked me to come to his shop and he indicated he would help with these items.

Again, thank you for your suggestions.

David Turner
North raleigh

David, If youd like to take a quick trip to mcleansville one night after work, Id Gladly show you all you need to know.
 

Mike Davis

Mike
Corporate Member
I agree it is hard to get a clean cut with most carbide. Brian Havens has a pretty good video on sheer scraping with a bowl gouge or if you have a standard scraper, sheer scraping with it. I normally use a scraper myself in sheer position.

I have used a round carbide like the EZWood tool in sheer scraping mode with great success.
 

Roy G

Roy
Senior User
David, to learn to sharpen turning gouges, it would be to your advantage to get a sharpening system like the Wolverine that Oneway sells. This way you would get a good edge consistently, which is hard to do free hand. Klingspor sells the sanding discs that fit on a pad which goes on your drill.

Roy G
 

Mike Mills

New User
Mike
I have used a round carbide like the EZWood tool in sheer scraping mode with great success.

Mike is correct of course. My mind did not click to a round cutter I was just thinking of square or slightly radiused (and catching a corner). A round carbide in a sheer scrape should give just as good results as a bowl scraper or gouge.
I present my scraper between 45 an 60 deg and Mike can tell you if that is an appropriate angle for the carbide. You can go steeper but I find, depending on the growth rings, the tool can tend to "walk" and follow the hardwood/softwood if you get too close to 90.
 

Stuart Kent

Stuart
Senior User
I finally got around to trying to turn some bowls. The first was a 6" diameter lace-wood bowl with a bowl gouge. I muddled through it (the bowl turning class at NCSU was cancelled; not enough participants) and got a reasonably smooth bowl. The problem is the end grain areas. I can not get those areas to sand smooth. Second bowl is cherry turned with Easy Wood carbide tools. (I bought the carbide inserts and made the rest) I am experiencing the same problem with the end grain.

I started with P100 grit, then 150, then 180, 240, 320 and even went to 400 on the cherry. No luck. Decided to go back and try 50 grit, and then go through the other grits. No luck; just have a lot more scratches everywhere to sand out.

Suggestions?

David Turner
North Raleigh

P.S. You would think with the last name of Turner, I would be good at this turning!

So there are a handful of issues I see here. The first thing that you need to know is that tools are secondary to your understanding of the problem. The end grain has likely torn or broken out. The issue you are dealing with is that you are attempting to sand down to the deepest level of the tear out and while it can be done, it is laborious and no the best approach. Everyone has suggested good things to you, and all should go into your mental toolbox. Regarding the end grain though, what really needs to be done is to cut the entire vessel down to the surface depth of the worst part of the visible end grain issue. Use the tool you are most confident with, and turn at the highest rpm you feel safe with. This will be a finishing cut, which is the thing most new turners struggle with. The key to getting it right is for you to move slowly and lightly while the machine moves the material quickly. Put another way, you need to take a light depth of cut and use a very slow feed rate with the tool.

Regarding the tool itself it doesn't matter. You can use a gouge, a carbide chisel or a scraper. They all do the same thing they simply achieve the cut by different means. You have to find the tools and techniques that are right for you. The thing for you to master is understanding where and how the tool cuts and how to make sure it's sharp. There are a thousand tools and a thousand ways to keep them sharp, everyone will have opinions on tools and sharpening equipment. I have turned for more than 20 years and in large part make my living doing it. My advice to you is to invest in a couple of good quality tools like Easy Wood Tools, Thompson gouges, Henry Taylor, Robert Sorby, Carter & Sons, etc. My go-to basic bowl turning kit includes an Easy Wood Tools Mid-Size Finisher, an Easy Wood Tools Mid-Size Rougher, a Thompson 3/8" bowl gouge, and a Henry Taylor round nosed scraper. I keep them very sharp with new carbide regularly and I use a Oneway Wolverine sharpening system with a slow speed grinder and cool white wheels.

I invite you to come visit the shop anytime if you want some pointers or would like to join us for a class. If you have more questions feel free to text or call me at 252.916.8226
 
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