Black stain on what?

[Matt Schnurbusch]

I am going to be building a kitchen table as a part of a kitchen nook for my brother. I need to decide what type of wood to use for the table. It will be stained/dyed black. They want the grain to show through a little so painting is out.

The bench/booth is going to be built out of maple ply and solid wood. Here is a picture of what it is "supposed" to look like when complete.

The only differences are that the booth will have a wood back, appolstered cushions, and be three-sided.

So, two questions...
What wood should I use to build the table, given that is going to be black and doesn't need to match the booth?
What process should I use to achieve the blackening?

Matt

 

[Bas]

I'd go with red oak. It's strong, cheap, machines well, and has a pronounced grain (if flatsawn). Ash would also work well. If you dyed something like Cherry, you wouldn't see a lot of grain.

As to the process, I have no idea, but I'm sure some of our finishing experts will jump right in!

 

[Sandy Rose]

Matt - I've been working on a red oak desk set (before it got so hot outside) that I've stained black. The problem that I have run across is the with ebony stain from minwax that I was using, is that it is really hard to get it really dark. I am going to have to eventually refinish the desk surface because I had to put it on so thick that the polyurethane is not adhering to it very well and it's starting to pop off in a few spots.

I recently bought a really informative book (Foolproof wood finishing by Teri Masaschi) on finishing and it says that the best way to get a really deep color and still see the grain is to use a wood dye. I noticed that Woodcraft carries one that may work for you. I plan on trying the ebony dye once I get back to working on things:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=20491

 

[Mike Davis]

A solution of iron rust in water will turn oak black.

 

[rywilson]

I have had the following bookmarked for sometime and plan on using this technique when I finally complete my Ash tables.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=67805&highlight=finishing+Ash

 

[skysharks]

If you look in my photo gallery. I completed a large entertainment center last X-mas and finished it with a n ebony stain. It looks black and you can see the grain. It maybe what you are after.

 

[WoodWrangler]

Hmmm, I think I'd try the dye (Transtint). I'm sure they make a black and that stuff is so much nicer than a "stain" and will be really rich. Put that on some white oak (to see the grain) and you'll have a slick look I bet.

 

[Travis Porter]

Hmmm, I think I'd try the dye (Transtint). I'm sure they make a black and that stuff is so much nicer than a "stain" and will be really rich. Put that on some white oak (to see the grain) and you'll have a slick look I bet.

I agree with Jeremy. Dye concentrate, mixed with water.

I seem to remember a post from Howard Acheson saying it is done in two parts. Dye as the first, then a sealer, and then maybe the Minwax.

 

[Mike Callihan]

Matt

You might want to check out Jeff Jewitt's site.

www.homesteadfinishing.com

You may recognize his name he written a couple of finishing books for Taunton. Anyway Jeff is a great guy and very accessible. He and his wife Susan run Homestead finishing. They sell supplies as a side line to his finishing business.

He works a lot with dyes and is considered something of a expert in the industry. His site has a FAQ on dyes that is a quick and informative read.

Red oak is not a favorite of mine especially for dyeing; the porous grain can be problematic when working with dyes both alcohol and water based. Unless you use a paste filler it can bleed for quite a while.

Mike

 

[Gofor]

The high level of tannic acid in oak lends it to black staining from iron rich water. Do a test piece and then spray some rattle can lacquer on it to see the result. If not black enough, then go the dye route.
Go

 

[Matt Schnurbusch]

I went over to the homestead site and one of the first things I read about the transtint, was that it was not food safe. Should I assume that is only if I am not going to topcoat? Again, this is a kitchen table. I'm concerned about the iron-oxide idea for the same reason.

What would any of you you top coat with? I have used Behlens' rockhard before, but I don't know how well it will hold up.

Matt

 

[McRabbet]

Behlen's Rockhard Varnish will hold up extremely well for your Kitchen Table -- I put three coats on ours four years ago and it has yet to show any signs of wear or waterspots -- still gleams! And first I used Behlen's SolarLux Cherry stain on the Maple veneer after I had removed the old finish and it has worked very well. And it comes in Black (try Klingspor's for it).

 

[Mike Davis]

Iron oxide will not cause any health problems, it may even give you renewed vigor. Ever heard of Geritol? :rotflm:

 

[Outa Square]

I would think that the finish would determine the level of food safeness and it would be more critical if it is intended for food to place directly on the surface to be eating, but i have kids and their intent and my intent can be different. I would think if you something like a rock hard finish as opposed to a oil finish that the stain wouldn't matter much.

You ruled out paint in your first post, but i know that milk paint can be used to achieve a variety of looks. It can be diluted to make it more translucent or you can raise the grain, apply paint, and lightly sand it to remove paint in the high spots which would allow the grain pattern to show up. You did mention that you were trying to match a finish and i would imagine that it was dyed or stained to begin with.

Another option is that you could genetically engineer your own cultivator of tree that has a natural wood color that you are looking for. That would be the easiest way to achieve the look you are desiring; now genetically altering the tree... that's the hard part i would imagine.

Good Luck

 

[4yanks]

Red oak is not a favorite of mine especially for dyeing; the porous grain can be problematic when working with dyes both alcohol and water based. Unless you use a paste filler it can bleed for quite a while.

Mike

Ditto on Mike's statement in regard to oak and dyes. If you do go with oak. Then dye it, seal it, glaze it, then topcoat. The glaze should be tinted to give the effect you wish for the pores.

 

[Tom Dunn]

I've used a Jacobean stain on a gunstock for a fella, but it's VERY black, about like paint, actually.
I suspect different wood might not turn quite so dark, however.

 

[Joe Scharle]

I use Minwax Onyx (has to be mixed) to knock down sapwood (sorry Roger) and it is pretty black. However, years ago I used black ink on a pine piece. Was all the rage at Ethan Allen at the time.

 

[TV]

Here is a link to a recent discussion of dyeing maple black. http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/f55/dye-hard-maple-15997/

HTH.

tv

 

[jeff...]

if you want to see open grain - White Ash is typically used when dying black. If you don't want to see grain it's typically maple or gum. Yes Gum...

I would not use oak because there is to much color variation - use some wood that is white and uninteresting and bland that you don't care to show off under a clear finish.

Thanks

 

[sawduster]

A solution of iron rust in water will turn oak black.

You can " brew " your own ebonizing " stain " with a jar of vinegar and shredded steel wool, rusty nails and screws etc . Takes about 24 hrs. Brush/wipe it on and it reacts with the tannic acid in the wood . Shred the steel wool in case there is any protective oil coating on it. The solution will not turn black but the wood will if it is high in tannic acid
It is not a stain so much as it is a permanent coloring due to the chemical reaction
I have not tried this myself but have seen many examples of the finished product. Mostly small pieces , not sure how well it would do for larger work