Beter contractors saw dust collection

[cubicdissection]

Got tired of all the dust flying out the back of my table saw, so I cut this little thingy out on my laser cutter. Only works when the blade is at 90 degrees, but that's what I do 95% of my cutting at anyway. Sticks on with magnets, so whenever I cut an angle it just pops off in 10 seconds.

I think I could have cut it a lot closer around the trunnion motor mounts; may try version 2 pretty soon if I'm still losing a lot of dust with this one.

Seems like this is something I could make and sell on the side. Wouldn't be a huge moneymaker, but I'd get a lot of satisfaction thinking about the man hours of sweeping I'd saved people. Anybody seen anything like this on the market before? I did a quick google search and found nothing.

 

[RandyJ]

That looks similar to my plywood version, Eric. I screwed mine to my Delta.
Wish I had thought about the magnet idea:slap:.
I like your clear version. Makes it easy to check for dust build-up:icon_thum
I'm sure a lot of people would probably buy one. Go for it!:eusa_clap

 

[Badabing]

Hey Eric! How's it going? That's pretty neat, great idea. I had to look at your picture 2 or 3 times before I realized what I was looking at. I just wasn't seeing the clear plexiglass, looked right past it (through it) and was wondering what you did. Then it hit me! :rolf:

I think that would be very marketable but you'd have to spend lots of time making templates for different brands of saws. If you have access to several saws it might be worth some up-front time to see if it works out well or not.

Another thought is that if you combine that with an undermount dust port, you won't have to worry about cutting the openings too big. In fact, they'd probably need to be a little larger to allow the airflow going in. I bet it's very effective though.

If I still had a contractor saw, I'd buy one. I would probably be willing to pay about $30 for it too.

That's my 2 cents worth :icon_thum

 

[Matt Schnurbusch]

I like that a lot. It's 'perty, and I'll bet quite effective.

 

[froglips]

Eric,

Clever solution. I too love that magenet idea.

This reminds me of the "depression chamber" approach I learned from C Alexander's video on dust collection.

http://calexandersworkshop.com/index.html

The idea is he buttons up every possible opening. His solution to the back of his powermatic contractors saw was similiar yours, in plywood though.

Jim

 

[Gotcha6]

Great idea! If you could figure out where the axis of the blade tilt shaft is in relation to the plexi, couldn't you make a second piece to pivot on that point and sweep around with the motor support?

 

[cubicdissection]

Thanks for the replies fellas! Just back in after dinner and drinks, so please excuse any misppellings!

Jim: Interesting approach on the C. Alaxander videos, but there is a caveat. The DC's most of us use with simple impeller motors rely on a certain amount of airflow to function properly. They are not designed to create vacuum, and in fact restricting too much airflow can overheat the motor and burn them out from what I have read. I thought about further patching holes in the TS case, but realized that with the bulk of the rear cavity blocked off, all the airflow wiill tend to pull down and into the DC plate on the bottom anyway. That and the physical barrier to dust flying out the back I think is a superior solution, but I plan on doing plenty of cutting this week to find out for sure how effective it is.

Dennis: The idea of a second pivot piece occured to me, but the mechanical implementation would be tricky. From a production standpoint, it would at a minimum double the prisce to manufacture. I guess I'm approaching this with a K.I.S.S. approach; considering that the vast majority of the cuts most woodworkers make is with the blade tilted at 90. My low tech solution? Probably an acrylic doorknob type hanger which goes over the angle adjust knob, reminding you to pull the DC hood from the back before adjusting blade angle. I know I could design something that worked with spontaneous angle changes, but the price increase would put it beyond the market I would try to reach. I'd like to be able to sell this shipped for $30 or less.

Anyway, I'm going to run this and see how it performs this week. If it works out, I may move forward offering it as a production item. In that case, I'd offer a free cover to the first person willing to measure their saw so I can get the specs to cover that model.

Already found a domain name for the business...ready?

Wait for it....

wait for it....

dustroyer.com!:rotflm:

Can't believe it wasn't taken! Please don't go to the URL now; I just registered it this afternoon, and it's still parked and pulling up obnoxious pop up ads.

 

[Rob]

Let me know what measurements needed, I'll measure my Delta contractors saw.

 

[golfdad]

I have a grizzly that has hd the plywood back for about 5 yrs.....and yes it limits you to 90degree cuts.....let me know if ya want to make one for grizzly

 

[Dudelive]

Could you make it so it was connected to the bottom with a 6" connector reduced down to 4" if needed. The bottom opening might take advantage of the weight of the dust and allow the vacuum to pull it out. With a rear motor mount as shown seal it all except maybe a space somewhere to allow air flow to be taken in at.

Others may have ideas as well. This way it could be easier adapted to different saw models.

 

[CaptnA]

that is interesting indeed.
Have to look at the saw and see how something like that would fit/work

 

[Gotcha6]

I'll be glad to get some dimensions from my TS, but it was used to build Noah's ark.:gar-La;
The one thing I think you may need to consider when marketing something like this is the buyer base. Realistically speaking, when I go to a WWing show and see something like this, I ask myself, "Couldn't I make this?" I'm sure a lot of WWers are the same way, so although the target market may be large enough to warrant production, does anyone out there have enough disposable income in the present economy to buy something like this?
You are correct with your KISS philosophy and I'm not trying to discourage your idea, but a good reality check now and then might be needed to keep the whole thing in perspective. The whold product will of course need to be able to be manufactured and marketed for less than the cost most WWers would pay for the smaller quantity purchase of materials (and time) to DIY.
Again, good luck.

 

[cubicdissection]

I'll be glad to get some dimensions from my TS, but it was used to build Noah's ark.:gar-La;
The one thing I think you may need to consider when marketing something like this is the buyer base. Realistically speaking, when I go to a WWing show and see something like this, I ask myself, "Couldn't I make this?" I'm sure a lot of WWers are the same way, so although the target market may be large enough to warrant production, does anyone out there have enough disposable income in the present economy to buy something like this?
You are correct with your KISS philosophy and I'm not trying to discourage your idea, but a good reality check now and then might be needed to keep the whole thing in perspective. The whold product will of course need to be able to be manufactured and marketed for less than the cost most WWers would pay for the smaller quantity purchase of materials (and time) to DIY.
Again, good luck.

Yup, good points all of them. Thanks for the post; I'm always open to constructive criticism and reality checks. Of course you're right that any ww product has to compete with the buyers inclination to make it themselves...which is why keeping the cost down is critical IMHO. Could most woodworkers make this themselves? Sure they can. Realizing that, my job is to give outstanding customer service, ship the item very quickly, and make the price attractive enough that most would rather just order it from me and save themselves the trouble. We'll see how that works out for me, eh? Even if it doesn't, the most I'm out is a domain name and a little time. My laser cutter sits there idle the majority of the time anyway.

 

[Howard Acheson]

Back in the 90's someone was touting and marketing the same thing except it was made with hardboard (masonite). It had two versions. One was held on with magnets the other used velcro.

No sure if he ever sold any but they were so easy to make that most would just make their own.

I was going to make one and had mocked up a pattern using cardboard duct taped into place. The cardboard worked well and I never even made the hardboard version. With the cardboard, when I forget to remove it when making bevel cuts, it just makes a lot of noise and slightly damages the cardboard. Easy to make a new one.

 

[cubicdissection]

Back in the 90's someone was touting and marketing the same thing except it was made with hardboard (masonite). It had two versions. One was held on with magnets the other used velcro.

No sure if he ever sold any but they were so easy to make that most would just make their own.

I was going to make one and had mocked up a pattern using cardboard duct taped into place. The cardboard worked well and I never even made the hardboard version. With the cardboard, when I forget to remove it when making bevel cuts, it just makes a lot of noise and slightly damages the cardboard. Easy to make a new one.

Thanks for the feedback Howard. If I designed it to handle angle changes without removal, would it have more value to you? I appreciate hearing opinions on BOTH sides for sure...those who think it's a good business idea, and those who dont!

 

[cubicdissection]

Well, I went back to the shop and played with this a little more. The problem with a design which stays in place during tilted cuts is that the hole is so large it negates a lot of the benefits. I thought about ways to make a sliding window that would cover the hole as the saw tilted, but that greatly complicates the design and would make it far more expensive to make (and hence sell).

I think that a simple hanging tag you put on the angle change knob would do a fine job reminding you to remove the rear guard. Even if you turn the knob without looking, after one rotation it will bang against your hand.

The fixed, simple design works *really* well. I cut some scraps up and even MDF which normally results in a spray of fine dust shooting out the back. Nothing....very very clean. Also, I can now feel air moving past my hand at all open points of the cabinet, including the zero clearance kerf and all other openings.

Can people make their own? Sure thing! However, I think that for a low enough price it's still a good deal not to have to hassle with it. Look at all the junk products out there that people buy anyway...those sooper duper table top rust treatment packs come to mind. They work WORSE than WD40 and paste wax, but people buy 'em. This product actually works well...so. not exactly snake oil, more of a do I want to bother with this or just buy the darn thing.

Anyway, I'll be working on version 2 for my couple saws (powermatic/jet) and after that will start developing covers for other models. Drop me a PM if you're interested in a free cover in exchange for taking some measurements. First come first served according to model of saw.

 

[Matt Schnurbusch]

Wanted to look at the pics again, but they are gone?

 

[cubicdissection]

Wanted to look at the pics again, but they are gone?

Huh....I can still see them on the first page of this thread...

 

[Matt Schnurbusch]

They're back. Honest they weren't there a few minutes ago.

While I think it would be much easier to enclose the whole back of my saw, I can't seem to get over being nervous. I can't afford to overheat the motor. Certainly I don't run the saw for extended periods of time, but the more I think about it, the less willing I am to take the chance.

I once had a tempered hardboard enclosure similar to yours that did a really good job, but I couldn't get over being nervous about shredding the belt. Can you tell I'm a bit of a nervous guy?

I guess I am going to have to invest the time to build a cover that takes the motor & belt swing into account. I seem to get tons of dust on top of my saw even with a zci. I know I need a stronger DC but for now I need to improve what I have.

 

[FredP]

you could route out curved slots for the belt but then it would be saw specific. how bout a bracket attached to the motor mount with a piece of plexi-glass that moves as the saw is tilted?:eusa_thin