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  1. #1
    User cyclopentadiene's Avatar
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    Dozuki saw problem

    I was using my Woodcraft Dozuki saw to trim screw hole plugs made from African Blackwood. While sawing the plugs flush, I started to notice metal and the teeth on the saw were breaking off of the saw.

    This was my first time using Blackwood for plugs as I generally use Ebony but woodcraft had the Blackwood on sale a few months ago and it was a lot less expensive than Ebony.

    My issue is that I am not sure if it was the Blackwood is extremely hard and broke the teeth or if something faulty happened with the saw?

    My concern is that I used my good Veritas plug cutter to cut the tapered plugs and I do not want to continue using Blackwood if it caused the damage.

    until this point I have had great experience with the Dozuki but perhaps these are more delicate than I thought.

    Any similar experiences?

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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    This is only a guess, but a flush cut saw is made to flex while using it to cut plugs flush. I don't believe a Dozuki saw is made to use that way. The teeth are hardened. Flexing the saw repeatedly is going to put a lot of stress on the saw right at the transition between the hardened teeth and the softer steel and right where it is contacting the plug. A flush cut saw is not as brittle.

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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    Blackwood is essentially identical in hardness to Ebony (3670 versus 3690 on Janka scale). However, if you were flexing your saw while flush trimming (as one typically does when flush trimming) then I would tend to agree that could potentially cause the damage you witnessed since such saws are not typically meant to be bent. On many saws only the actual teeth are hardened (typically via induction heating), reducing the chance that minor bending of the blade (such as if the blade suddenly binds) will cause the blade to shatter, as could happen if the full blade were brought to the same hardness as the actual teeth, but it does mean that the teeth are going to be much more brittle than the blade body. Oftentimes blades that are designed to flex significantly will be bimetal blades, which consist of a flexible inner core with a very thin surface coating of a much harder steel (such as HSS or high carbon steel) that provides the wear resistance and yet remains flexible because it is extremely thin (the same way a sheet of paper can safely flex far more than a 1x2).

    That said, it is also possible that your blade was not properly tempered to help reduce the brittleness of the teeth after hardening, in which case they would be more susceptible to fracturing when subjected to excessive stresses. If it is still under warranty I would probably go ahead and swap it for a new blade since the fault may well be shared (possible misuse plus improper tempering), but also buy another complimentary saw more appropriate for the flush trimming operations you seek to perform (Japanese or Western) and try again...with hopefully better results the next time.

    But all is just an educated guess since we were not there to witness the exact circumstances things occurred under.

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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopentadiene View Post
    I was using my Woodcraft Dozuki saw to trim screw hole plugs made from African Blackwood. While sawing the plugs flush, I started to notice metal and the teeth on the saw were breaking off of the saw.

    This was my first time using Blackwood for plugs as I generally use Ebony but woodcraft had the Blackwood on sale a few months ago and it was a lot less expensive than Ebony.

    My issue is that I am not sure if it was the Blackwood is extremely hard and broke the teeth or if something faulty happened with the saw?

    My concern is that I used my good Veritas plug cutter to cut the tapered plugs and I do not want to continue using Blackwood if it caused the damage.

    until this point I have had great experience with the Dozuki but perhaps these are more delicate than I thought.

    Any similar experiences?
    This should not happen cutting a plug. Its a simple cross cut job. I think the quality of the teeth is in question. Being a heavy user of japanese saws over the years I have found a couple things to be true:

    1. Cheap saws do not last. That's not all bad but you can't have the same expectation you would have for the life of a quality made saw. I use a cheap saw called the "Z" saw. This has become a generic title used by many suppliers of saws and replacement blades. In some cases, you will find a complete saw for 28 bucks. Looking around for a replacement blade you will find them more costly than a new saw. The blades are not the same in most cases. One example I am aware of is the Rockler line of saws. They are low quality and they do not last. I use the Japan Woodworker blades and found them to be good quality at a fair price.

    http://www.japanwoodworker.com/categ...aw-blades.aspx

    2. There are two different tooth patterns on pull saws. One for rips and one for crosscuts. When I am dovetailing by hand, I must admit I use only one saw and move along. I favor the rip saw as most of the cutting is in this mode. For the small areas needing a cross cut, I just cut away with my rip saw. I think this is a method most joiners use regardless of the saw they favor-- push or pull.

    Veritas saw: if this saw could not cut a plug, I would be quick to return it.

    I would return the saw in question if it was used lightly and get a good quality saw if you like the pull motion.

    good luck

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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    There is indeed a big difference between manufacturers of these saws - unfortunately you got hold of one the the questionable ones.
    You can pay way too much for junk, but you can also find reasonable quality for not much more. Try the Gyokucho brand - I like the 372 best

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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    Based on my experience during the dovetail workshop recently the saws Phil is recommending are first rate.

    But that said you should be using a flush cut saw for plugs. It is made to flex and have zero kerf (at least on one side - sometimes both.) Although most Japanese style saws have very little kerf, they do have some and will scratch the surface wood unless you put a playing card or something between them and the wood.
    Ban shredded cheese, make America grate again.

    "May the grain be with you" - Roy Underhill

  8. #7
    User cyclopentadiene's Avatar
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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    The saw I have is one of the saws that is randomly placed on sale at Woodcraft. I have had the saw for a while as I purchased it at the Greensboro Woodcraft but generally use it very little. If I can use a power tool, it is my preferred choice.

    I should also mention that when I saw flush cut, I do not cut plugs to the surface. I generally cut them about 1/8 inch away then cut them down with a rasp and sand them flat with the wood surface. Again my preference for a power tool option. I generally do not flex a saw.

    I think the lesson here may be that if it is not a premium brand and it is on sale, it may not be that good. I should have paid $30 more and purchased a Veritas saw. I have no preference for a pull cut and actually found it annoying when I first started using the dozuki.

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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclopentadiene View Post
    I think the lesson here may be that if it is not a premium brand and it is on sale, it may not be that good. .
    Perhaps.

    I know this is not a dozuki but rather a small flush cut saw. I've had one for several years. It has seen a ton of use and still cuts as good as ever. A true HF gem in my mind....for the grand total of $8.99.
    image_25041.jpg


    http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-f...saw-62118.html

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    Re: Dozuki saw problem

    And they are carbon steel so can be re-profiled and/or sharpened.

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