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  1. #16
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieM View Post
    You definitely don't need a screw driver as using one in the slot guarantees that you're putting the insert in upside down.
    Ernie, thanks for the video link. The technique looks effective, but I don't think we were installing them upside down. I doubted that the slot would cut anything so looked online for a manufacturer's instructions. EZ-Lok has a video of someone installing an insert in metal with a screwdriver in the slot - just as we have all surmised. I will use his technique to drive the inserts, but slot up!

  2. #17
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by jlimey View Post
    Ernie, thanks for the video link. The technique looks effective, but I don't think we were installing them upside down. I doubted that the slot would cut anything so looked online for a manufacturer's instructions. EZ-Lok has a video of someone installing an insert in metal with a screwdriver in the slot - just as we have all surmised. I will use his technique to drive the inserts, but slot up!
    You may well be right. It's only upside down if you believe Ron's assertion that the slot is there to help cut the threads in the wood. Either way, the insert will work, so take your pick.
    www.ernestmillerharpsichords.com

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  3. #18
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    The best way to avoid blistering the wood when installing threaded inserts into materials like particle board and MDF is to pre-tap the threads, ideally using a proper tap as it makes for cleaner threads and better clears the waste, as each insert also matches a standard bolt thread and pitch. However, there is a cost to avoiding the unwanted blistering when installing the threaded inserts into such materials and that is that you will likely find that they have a somewhat loose, sometimes very loose, fit afterwards and are prone to backing out when unbolting things later on since they are no longer being compressed by the wood since the insert did not have to cut its own threads, which is most easily resolved by gluing the insert into place with some epoxy as you install the insert.

    And in answer to your other question, the slot does ordinarily face out and can be used with a suitably large screwdriver or spanner. There are special T-wrenches available both to help install them as well as to assist in the initial alignment so that they go in more straight (rather than at an angle). However, you may also use a long bolt with a pair of nuts threaded so that about 1/4"-3/8" of threads remains, then back the nuts up to one another very tightly so that you form a stop nut, then thread the insert into the end of the bolt and use the bolt, along with a wrench or socket, to align and install the threaded insert. The T-wrenches are just more convenient if you need to install more than a few inserts.

  4. #19
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by chris_goris View Post
    I would use these from the backside
    Attachment 21620
    Such are certainly an option, though they do add some thickness to the backside and can easily fall out if they are ever unsecured by a bolt, and can be easily pushed back out when installing a bolt since there is nothing to hold them in place -- the nail like spurs are more to resist rotation than to physically hold the insert in place due to their wedge shape. You can address this issue with some epoxy prior to hammering them in place. It is not much of an issue if things will never be unbolted once assembled, but is a concern if things are ever to be disassembled in the future.

  5. #20
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Those star inserts your looking at from McMaster Car are also sold at Lowes

  6. #21
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by ehpoole View Post
    Such are certainly an option, though they do add some thickness to the backside and can easily fall out if they are ever unsecured by a bolt, and can be easily pushed back out when installing a bolt since there is nothing to hold them in place -- the nail like spurs are more to resist rotation than to physically hold the insert in place due to their wedge shape. You can address this issue with some epoxy prior to hammering them in place. It is not much of an issue if things will never be unbolted once assembled, but is a concern if things are ever to be disassembled in the future.

    I have designed these into production (high volume) medical equipment tabletops supporting optical equipment that is designed for later disassembly/reassembly. After several thousand units in the field and 12-18 inserts in each one, I have heard zero complaints about them "falling out".

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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Your application using particle board and computer screws isn't going to have a lot stress forces to pull it apart. That simplifies things using your inserts-they don't need to be screwed into the particle board-just secured with epoxy glue.

    1. Your insert is #EZW632 (3/8" long with an external diameter of 5/16").

    https://www.nutty.com/E-Z-Lok-Insert...ood_c_255.html

    http://www.woodmagazine.com/material...readed-inserts

    2. Computer screws?

    https://www.amazon.com/Computer-Case.../dp/B005GKXAH4

  8. #23
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieM View Post
    You may well be right. It's only upside down if you believe Ron's assertion that the slot is there to help cut the threads in the wood. Either way, the insert will work, so take your pick.
    Ernie,
    You were close,
    The slot is not there to help "cut" the threads, but for swarf to go into if you install these correctly using a threaded tool or as he shows in the video with a screw and nuts. When installed correctly there may be nowhere for the material to go...

    These are NOT intended to be installed using a screw driver and NOT to be installed "slot-up" as it has no purpose... using a screwdriver in the soft 360 brass will typically break an ear or the screwdriver will simply "cam-out" of the slot...

    The EZ Loc guys copied this design and never knew how it was intended to be installed...
    “Think about it: Everything with a power cord eventually winds up in the trash.” John Sarge, timber framer and blacksmith instructor

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  10. #24
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by chris_goris View Post
    I have designed these into production (high volume) medical equipment tabletops supporting optical equipment that is designed for later disassembly/reassembly. After several thousand units in the field and 12-18 inserts in each one, I have heard zero complaints about them "falling out".
    That has not been my experience, particularly in soft materials. They will hold strongly when the bolts are securing them in place, but are easily prone to backing out if any linear force is applied to them in the needy in direction when installing a bolt or if knocked about when not secured by a bolt as the spikes are triangular in shape and do not have much resistance to forces pushing them back out, but especially so in softer materials (such as particleboard and MDF in particular). They do tend to hold more reliably in the absence of a securing bolt in solid woods and HDF material, but not so well in particleboard (LDF) and MDF materials in my experience

    That your experience with these inserts may be different does not negate my experiences with these inserts in the material the OP intends to use, our experiences may certainly differ, and it is easy to understand why such may happen when looking at the spikes as they are engineered primarily to prevent rotation of the insert during threading and tightening rather than independently holding the insert reliably when not secured by a bolt from the opposite side.

  11. #25
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    These are NOT intended to be installed using a screw driver and NOT to be installed "slot-up" as it has no purpose... using a screwdriver in the soft 360 brass will typically break an ear or the screwdriver will simply "cam-out" of the slot...

    The EZ Loc guys copied this design and never knew how it was intended to be installed...
    So others were equally confused and came up with a screw driver substitute that seems to work just fine "IF" you get the right end up. I think that the bolt/jamb nut method probably works better if you don't care which end is up.

    http://www.rockler.com/power-drive-t...ed-insert-tool

  12. #26
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by Hmerkle View Post
    Ernie,
    You were close,
    The slot is not there to help "cut" the threads, but for swarf to go into if you install these correctly using a threaded tool or as he shows in the video with a screw and nuts. When installed correctly there may be nowhere for the material to go...

    These are NOT intended to be installed using a screw driver and NOT to be installed "slot-up" as it has no purpose... using a screwdriver in the soft 360 brass will typically break an ear or the screwdriver will simply "cam-out" of the slot...

    The EZ Loc guys copied this design and never knew how it was intended to be installed...
    Hank, the slots on the OP's brass inserts are indeed for insertion, including removal, and meant to face outward and have nothing whatsoever to do with cutting of the threads (they have no role in relation to the threads, nor do they interact with such), I am uncertain where that is coming from? They are actually intended for either a suitable screwdriver blade, pin spanner, or a special driver bit (they will work fine with all the above) and are plenty robust enough to not break off as there is not much force involved with installing or removing a threaded insert, especially in wood, unless one has epoxied such into place. Keep in mind that these are reasonably deep recesses that provide solid purchase and that the walls of the brass inserts are actually quite thick and strong, not at all like wrenching the head off a small brass woodscrew or camming out in the same.

    You may be confusing them with helical inserts where a special anvil is used afterwards to flare the helical threads and permanently lock them into the surrounding metal (as well as facilitate easier bolt installation). But such has no application or equivalent in woodworking as wood is simply too soft and incompatible a material to cold weld to metal.

  13. #27
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    Re: Particle Board and Threaded Inserts

    Quote Originally Posted by ehpoole View Post
    Hank, the slots on the OP's brass inserts are indeed for insertion, including removal, and meant to face outward and have nothing whatsoever to do with cutting of the threads (they have no role in relation to the threads, nor do they interact with such), I am uncertain where that is coming from? They are actually intended for either a suitable screwdriver blade, pin spanner, or a special driver bit (they will work fine with all the above) and are plenty robust enough to not break off as there is not much force involved with installing or removing a threaded insert, especially in wood, unless one has epoxied such into place. Keep in mind that these are reasonably deep recesses that provide solid purchase and that the walls of the brass inserts are actually quite thick and strong, not at all like wrenching the head off a small brass woodscrew or camming out in the same.

    You may be confusing them with helical inserts where a special anvil is used afterwards to flare the helical threads and permanently lock them into the surrounding metal (as well as facilitate easier bolt installation). But such has no application or equivalent in woodworking as wood is simply too soft and incompatible a material to cold weld to metal.

    Hank,
    I guess we've been schooled by the all knowing Ethan.......

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