How stable is cedar?

[wndopdlr]

When I started woodworking some years ago, my mentor hammered into me that "trees keep trying to get round". For that reason, I never use cherry boards wider than 4" or beech boards wider than 2". Some wood just seems less prone to movement than other species. I understand that the movement has a lot to do with where the board was cut on the log and the orientation of the growth rings, but I am looking for general terms.

I am just starting on building a cedar chest for my Grandbaby and have cedar board that run to 9+ inches. When I glue up panels, do I need to rip and glue these boards or are they OK to use as is. Keep in mind that this cedar chest will only be finished on the exterior side, so that just makes the warpage potential worse. I have never worked with cedar before, so this is a learning experience.

Thanks for lookiing and all replys are appreciated.

[richlife]

I'll be really interested to see the replies on this one. To me, you are restricting yourself unnecessarily to narrow board of cherry and beech. I have not had problems with boards up to 7-8". It does tremendously depend on how the board was cut. Plain sawn (especially near the outside) can be very prone to cup. (Decking is a really good example.)

I think softwoods would be more prone to cupping or warping just because of the more open structure. But all woods that are properly dried will tend to be more stable.

Still, I've never used cedar and I currently have some air dried (bone dry), thin cut Douglas fir for a special purpose, and hence my interest.

Rich

[kooshball]

From my experience white cedar is very stable. I buy it in 5/4 rough thickness then resaw into 3/8 - 1/2 boards for drawer bottoms. So ssI recently grabbed some boards that were resawn a year ago and forgotten about in my garage...they are just as straight and true now as they were then.

[Jeff]

Guessing that you're gonna use Eastern red cedar in Stanfield. A design sketch with a few dimensions and orientations of your proposed panels and rails/stiles would help for better advice.

Trees don't necessarily want to get round after they are sawn and properly dried so cupping/warping is less of an issue regardless of where an individual board came from in the original tree trunk. Those internal stresses get relieved when the board is sawn and dried, but some may still exist in a wide board.

ERC is pretty stable, but you might want to rip your 9" boards to 4.5" to even out cupping and warping before glueing up into panels. You could also consider making your panels in a tongue and groove style on your table saw instead of a glue up so that the individual boards are free to wiggle a little bit within the frame.

Just a few thoughts off of the top of my head.

[scsmith42]

Cedar is extremely stable; I would not shy away from using 9" wide boards.

If your wood is flat, properly dried, is being worked in an environment that has a RH% similar to the environment that the finished piece will end up in, and if the wood has a relatively consistent MC% from shell to core, I am not aware of any benefits of ripping a wide board and then gluing it back together.

If your wood is not fully dry, or if you're working in a non-climate controlled shop where the wood is at 12%MC but it will end up in a house and equalize to 6% MC, then ripping wide boards and gluing them back together with alternating growth rings could be beneficial.

Simply sealing the doors and walls from moisture migration, and keeping a dehumidifier running 24/7 in a typical garage shop will alleviate most problems.

[jlwest]

I agree with Scott...

[wndopdlr]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I am blessed to have a climate controlled shop, so RH is not a big concernl It has been a couple weeks since I planed this air dried cedar, the wait intentional so that it could climatize. The 4/4 wood was stickered about 14 months ago and covered while it dried, the ends of the log were painted with latex paint to minimize checking. It remained flat throughout the drying process, so I have high hopes for the panels I am going to glue up. I don't have any plans to share and I wouldn't know how to post them here anyway. The box will be about 45L X 19H X 18D. My intent is to make the box and then apply rails and stiles to make it look similar to a panalized construction. Siince this is my first attempt at a cedar chest, I may give this one away to a fund raiser our church is having and make the next one for the Grandbaby.

Thanks again for all the response.

[Jeff]

+1 to Scott's suggestion to use your 9" boards as is if they're not seriously cupped or warped. Yes, ERC is very stable. A 9" wide ERC board at the extremes of 12% MC and 6% MC will only shrink by about 1/16". That becomes almost imperceptible in a typical home environment of 8-10%.

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/shrinkulator.htm

http://www.artisansofthevalley.com/ed_drying.shtml

[merrill77]

Siince this is my first attempt at a cedar chest, I may give this one away to a fund raiser our church is having and make the next one for the Grandbaby.

I've done this on two projects because I was concerned that I would make a lot of mistakes that I could then avoid on the second attempt. While that part worked out really well (I didn't repeat those mistakes), I found that I made different mistakes on the second pass. So for me, the net result was that I now had two pieces with barely-concealed mistakes. YMMV, etc. but I know I'm not going to do that again.

However, I have found it useful to cut some extra parts along the way and use those to practice my setup or technique for joinery. Or for spares after I screw up.

Chris

[Jeff]

Wally,

A few thoughts based upon your last post. Nothing specific or defined, but was just playing around with Sketch Up to keep the arthritic finger joints mobile. Joinery and other specifics are not included and that's your call, but I'll be happy to define them once you've completed your design ideas.

The height is set at 18 1/4" so it'll finish out at 19" with the added top. What are you planning to use for the frame construction that the cedar panels will go in?



Sorry I didn't have a cedar example, this is plum.

[Jeff Mills]

Cedar is extremely stable; I would not shy away from using 9" wide boards.

If your wood is flat, properly dried, is being worked in an environment that has a RH% similar to the environment that the finished piece will end up in, and if the wood has a relatively consistent MC% from shell to core, I am not aware of any benefits of ripping a wide board and then gluing it back together.

If your wood is not fully dry, or if you're working in a non-climate controlled shop where the wood is at 12%MC but it will end up in a house and equalize to 6% MC, then ripping wide boards and gluing them back together with alternating growth rings could be beneficial.

Simply sealing the doors and walls from moisture migration, and keeping a dehumidifier running 24/7 in a typical garage shop will alleviate most problems.

Yes I agree with you Scott - in my experience ERC is extremely stable. Air Dried is very stable for outdoor use and Kiln Dried is very stable for indoor use. One thing I like about ERC, it's pretty dry coming right off the log, so air drying is pretty quick and easy.

[Jeff]

Welcome back Jeff Mills after a self imposed hiatus. We all missed your expertise and experiences to share.

[scsmith42]

Welcome back Jeff Mills after a self imposed hiatus. We all missed your expertise and experiences to share.

+100!