Jointer Problem

[MrAudio815]

UPDATE BELOW



Hello,


I have the Grizzly G0490 with byrd cutter head and when I push a board through with all the pressure of the first 6-10" of the board it cuts the front only and after a few passes the back of the board is now way off the table when it was almost flat with the table at the beginning. It just keeps tapering the board even when I put all my pressure on the back of the board.


I know my beds are out of alignment, but how and what should I do to fix this. It was working great a few months ago, but then again I did move it to put dust collection pipe behind it. But I have a caster and didn't think I messed up the in-feed bed.


Any thoughts, ideas would be greatly appreciated.


Matthew

[The BoardSMITH]

In the manual there is a section on leveling the tables. Remove the fence and take your time.

[ehpoole]

You may also wish to read the following Article: Jointer Setup & Knife Installation and Alignment. Once you have verified that your tables are coplanar, if the problem continues then read the bottom section which covers what to do when find yourself cutting unwanted tapers.

Although your description is strongly suggestive of cutting tapers, your first step should be verifying that the tables are in fact coplanar relative to one another, then verify that the outfeed table's height is properly setup relative to your knives.

[Charlie]

Matthew, It appears that the outfeed table is too high. A few .000 can make a difference. I rotated the cutters on my jointer last week (byrd cutter head), which is 3 years old. After rotating the cutters I had to adjust the outfeed table. Lay a straight edge on the outfeed table and let it extend over the cutters. Rotate the cutter head and you will probably see that the cutters don't touch the straight edge. Again, a few .000 makes a big difference. Adjust until the cutters touch but don't raise the straight edge off the table. Good lighting will help you accomplish this.

[MrAudio815]

Yes Ethan it is most certainly cutting tapers....

I will certainly check all that was suggested tomorrow. Now I just need to find the manual~!

Also the lever for the in-feed table is totally lose and I cannot tighten it. It just wobbles around???? And I don't see how to tight that unless I take of the in-feed bed.


I did put a straight edge on the out-feed bed and on the fence side the height distance from the cutter head to the end of the straight edge (4') looks the same, but when I put it on the bed side closest to me the end of the straight edge looks closer to the bed. So I think it is also twisted? But how can it be twisted when it is a parallelogram setup?


Thanks again

[The BoardSMITH]

Did you buy this machine new or used? Do you have the manual? If you don't have a manual I will gladly send you a copy of the section about leveling the tables.

The lever for raining and lowering the tables is threaded so it should simply twist back to tight. I don't this is causing your problems though.

The instructions in the manual are somewhat easy.

1. Make sure the out feed table is 1/16" higher than the cutter head spindle. If it isn't, raise the table until it is. Feeler gauges work well here. Don't gauge off the cutters, the one you measure from may be a little higher than the others depending on how loose it may be or how much material is stuck under it from past turnings.

2. Raise the in feed table until it is level and even with the out feed table. I used a straightedge across the cutter head to see how even they were. Your straightedge should touch the tables for its entire length. If not, loosen the set screws above the concentric washers and turn them slightly until a level and even condition is achieved. (The longer the straightedge, the better here.)

[MrAudio815]

David,

I bought it new and installed the helical head. I do have the manual.

I followed the manual to the tee and it still doesn't work. The outfeed beds table closest to me is slightly higher that the back side or pulley side. I have loosened the set screws and tried adjusting the eccentric bushing by taping on them with a punch, but it still didn't adjust it. I even tried adjusting the pulley/back side eccentric bushings to try to raise them to help level the bed from front to back but it's not working at all.


Please help~! I have NO idea why it won't work. I just want to level the outfeed table so I can get onto fixing the infeed table.


Thanks for all the help so far.




Matthew

[The BoardSMITH]

Earlier in the year I purchased a 12" Grizzly jointer and had immediate problems with it. It wasn't producing a taper but when I jointed a piece the end would seem to drop off to the outfeed table. I went through the leveling process numerous times but the last time I made sure the outfeed table was level with the spindle. Then I marked a line 1/2 way between the ends of the cutterhead on both tables and raised the infeed so the center line was level and even with the outfeed table center line. Then I was able to measure how much higher the infeed table was on the outside of the jointer and how high the outfeed table was at the pulley. Grizzly then replaced the jointer.

One last question; when you replaced the cutterhead, could you have somehow misaligned the cutterhead? I would think this could be a possibility, however remote. Could the cutterhead be to high in relation to the infeed or outfeed tables or could it be skewed a little. It wouldn't take much of a misalignment to throw the results off.

One last thing, with a parallelogram jointer, I believe you must level the tables together for them to be correctly aligned. A long straight edge and feeler gauges will help.

[RonJ103]

This is a really good video on jointer setup: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/jointer-setup/.

[Tarhead]

If you don't have a long straightedge make a Master Bar set out of scrap Ply or MDF and a handful of drywall screws. John White explains it starting on page 26 here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=dSL...ointer&f=false

He also has very clear instructions on jointer bed adjustment.

[MrAudio815]

This is a really good video on jointer setup: http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/jointer-setup/.

Thanks Jeremy for the Video. I did what he did from minute 16 to about minute 22 on the video on the out feed table and the reason I started with that is because the manual said to. I noticed that the outfeed table cutter head front was high so I tried to adjust the cams, but the cams didn't seem to work at all. I got them turned all the way around making slight taps with a punch and checking each time and it didn't change the height on the front side by the cutter head???

When I replaced the straight knife blade with the helical head there was some shims that I put back in the same place as they had them before so maybe that has something to do with it. But in my mind the cams or eccentric bushing as they call them in the Grizzly manual should have adjusted the table like it did in the Video by the wood whisper. I am trying to adjust the table to the cutter head body and not the blades of course.

The straight edge I have is a box store yellow straight edge and some GROZ engineers straight edge here and I know it is short, but I should at least see the light going away when I move the cams and I don't so how can I even check the end of the outfeed table if I can't even get it working right next to the cutter head? Argh this is frustrating, but I will be so glad when I actually figure it out.


Don't give up on me.... Oh and I hope it doesn't come to that David... Even though it would be nice to have them replace the jointer for a new one, maybe with the helical head already installed.

[ehpoole]

From your description I take it you have a parallelogram jointer. Keep in mind that those cams are meant to make adjustments on the order of thousandths of an inch, so the changes will not be perceptible if you don't have a good straightedge and feeler gauge to check the adjustments. Larger changes in height should be made with the regular table height adjustment wheel or lever (and not the cams).

Also keep in mind that quite often when you are making a change, you will want to raise/lower one corner and perform the exact opposite (lower/raise) the diagonally opposing corner, otherwise they two corners are just fighting one another (unless you have some sort of 3-point setup, but most IIRC are 4-point). I would reset all your cams to their mid-point (so you have room for plus or minus adjustment) and try again. If all (or most) of the cams are at either extreme you may find it difficult to make adequate adjustment on the corners that need adjustment. And, again as a reminder, remember that *larger* adjustments should be made by raising or lowering the entire table not just by the cams alone as they are intended for minute and precision adjustment. The focus should be to get each table on: 1) the same plane as the cutter head (you can adjust overall height and level the two tables relative to one another later) and 2) the two tables should be setup coplanar so that each are on the same identical plane.

It is also of great importance to keep in mind, when making reference measurements (such as with a dial gauge) that the tables on woodworking equipment are NOT required to be ground to engineer/machinist precision. You may have areas of your table that are as much as +/- 0.003". If you don't properly identify and characterize these high and low spots, then any precision measurements you try to make relative to such will always be in question since such errors have not been properly accounted for. My Jet jointer (JJ-8CS) has areas on the table (including near the cutterhead) that deviate by as much as 0.002" -- this is important to account for in your measurements!

When you are finished your outfeed table should be set somewhere between dead-even with highest point of your cutterhead knives and 0.001-0.002" below to avoid unwanted tapering of the workpiece.

I wish you lived a good deal closer to me and I'd try to stop by to help (but I don't travel very well these days due to my health). You may wish to ask if another user in your area (if we have any) who has some experience setting up shop equipment *and* has all the proper setup tools (e.g. straightedges, dial gauges, feeler gauges, etc.) would be willing to stop by and lend a hand -- worst that will happen if you ask is no takers! Jointer and Planer setup can be more challenging than some other shop tools, especially for the uninitiated, and, yet, even minor mistakes in the setup can literally be the difference between a Jointer or Planer that is a joy to use versus one that provides hours of endless frustration.

Most importantly, do not give up. You will figure it out in time. You should also feel free to call the vendor or manufacturer for additional guidance -- a good vendor or manufacturer will offer you some additional tips and suggestions if you get stuck.

I hope you find something useful in this advice, and if not then just keep trying... perseverance will eventually pay off.

Best wishes!

[The BoardSMITH]

As ehpoole said, the concentric bushings are meant for tiny adjustments. Take it slow and easy. One thing I found that worked well was I found a grinder wrench with two prongs which fit the bushings making them easier to turn in tiny increments.

I can understand your frustration since I suffered for several weeks with a misaligned jointer. The root cause there was faulty tables. I suspect there is another problem foing on you haven't found yet.

BTW When I purchased the 12" Grizzly, I sold the old 8" 490 I had with the spiral head. Once Grizzly received the 12" back, I had them replace it with another 490 with the spiral head. After unpacking, assembling and cleaning the jointer, it only required small adjustments. The fence was 0.002" to 0.003" out but that is something I can live with. (Has a slight twist. One day I will have a machine shop grind it to a more precision flatness.)

[gazzer]

If you don't have a long straightedge make a Master Bar set out of scrap Ply or MDF and a handful of drywall screws. John White explains it starting on page 26 here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=dSL...ointer&f=false

He also has very clear instructions on jointer bed adjustment.

I have made and used this method to make a master bar reference with great success. They will make your setup a whole lot easier. I have this same jointer and had to do some minor tweaking. Once setup it works like a charm.

-G

[MrAudio815]

Man I feel like an idiot. Thanks for letting me know they are for tiny adjustments as that did the trick. I moved the outfeed table down so that the gap was about equal the front and back side of the cutter head. Then I adjusted the concentric bushings very little and wow it really did move. If your looking at a business card ....Visualize looking down on the out feed table. Top left (Back side) , bottom left (Front Side), Top right, bottom right. From Top right to top left it is really tight getting a .0025 feeler gauge in the top right and top left, but will get under the middle a little. The Bottom left to bottom right it's tight all the way across with a .0025 feeler gauge. Now from Top right to Bottom left it's tight at each end but the middle I can get a .004 feller gauge in with no problem, but from Bottom right to top Left I can only get a .0025 feller gauge in the middle with it tight on both ends. Now I am using a stanley Lowes straight edge so that could be part of the problem. But When I use the GROZ 6 inch it is dead flat and I can't even get a .0015 feeler gauge under it so it make me think the stanley is good enough for woodworking???

I started working on the infeed table, but I couldn't get the concentric bushing to move a hair on the back side, so I went to HD and got some adjustable wrenches since I couldn't find a spanner wrench even with an employee's help. I hope the adjustable wrench works and I think it will since it has two flat sides. The first part of the infeed table it quite low, so I may need to lower the end by the cutter head is to help flatten it out.


THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP~! THIS SITE ROCKS and hopefully they way I tuned up my jointer will ROCK, once it is done~!


Matthew